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Super sucks diving experience

Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#1  Postby sh3rman » Fri May 27, 2011 10:33 am

The all the sifus around..... This incident make me feel very very upset in diving (almost phobia) :angry4:.... pls guide me what should I do?
Few months ago I went to a diving trip in SWV for a 5 days 4 night trip.

ON the 4th day after we did the last boat dive, me and my friends planed to dive at SWV house reef maybe shoot some photo there. Before we start the dive my instructor offer me and my friend that he willing to teach both of us navigation. Then he borrow 2 compass from the dive center and start teach us how to use the compass. only me and my another friend doing the lesson the others just going for photo shooting. After that he set a destination point and ask us to follow the compass dive to the destination and dive back to the dive center. After that we jump into the water and start the dive. The site condition was bad visibility, cold water temp, and almost the dive site is 90% sandy u can hardly see any reefs there.

Then we start the route, due to the condition after 15 min dive, I'd lost my buddies. Then I tot maybe we can meet up at the destination the instructor set.  and I manage to reach the destination. but nobody there. I wait there for 5-10 minute alone still nobody coming then I follow my compass and dive back to the dive center. When I reach the the dive center, I worried that my instructor will keep on looking for me at the destination even I already feel scare of dive alone. Then I dive back to the destination point and return back to dive center twice hope that maybe I can find them.  :crybaby2: :crybaby2: :crybaby2:

After another 2 return dive from the destination and dive center I give up and wait for them at the dive site. U know what happen to them? My buddy also face the same problem. lost every buddies but he was lucky. He meet another friend of us and he just follow my friend. And my lovely instructor, He found something interested and then he went to take photo and left us behind. He didn't even try to look for us. :angry4: :angry4: :angry4:

The best part of the incident is after the dive I go to the instructor and tell him : " u know how dangerous it is u left me dive alone there? I tot u not suppose to left the student to dive alone" (I'm just a OW diver with around 40 dive and just started may 2010)
u know what is the answer I get? he answer me "at SWV house reef, its ok to dive alone." WTF.... until today he didn't even apologize to me on what he did to me  :angry4: :angry4: :angry4:

Actually I was thinking of write a letter to the dive institute and tell them about the incident. Because I feel that this instructor is totally not qualify and irresponsible. I worried some day someone will kena :angry4: :angry4: :angry4:

If u were me, what will u do???? Pls guide me :angel8:
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#2  Postby Viking » Fri May 27, 2011 12:27 pm

Maximum depth? Day dive? Who is the instructor?
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#3  Postby irukandji » Fri May 27, 2011 12:34 pm

Hi sh3rman, thanks for sharing your stories with us.

Indeed it is a quite unpleasant experience being lost when diving/lose dive buddy. Especially when the visibility is bad. I've experienced it countless time myself. And I believe it'll going to happen again from time to time. (well, I get lost even in shopping mall car park :D).

Since I cannot totally avoid being lost, I start to follow the 'search buddy for 1 minute, if can't find ascent to surface' rule. Of course I'll have to agree with my buddy to follow this rule before diving. So in case of us lose sight of each other, we can always know to meet up at the surface (as surface is safer/easier to search than underwater). Since I follow this rule, diving has been less anxious for me and my buddy.  ;)

I still remember what my instructor told me after my Open Water Certification.
This is what he told me 'Congratulations! You are now an Open Water Diver. Neither me nor anyone else will be responsible for your safety anymore, apart from your own self'.
Well, definitely I feel very 'alone' that moment, but that gives me an insight to prepare and plan my dives better, and not rely on anybody for my own safety.

If I were you, I'll look to the positive side. I'll take this as an good experience. Well at least now you get to know how to navigate thru and fro in a straight line in bad visibility water (in fact I think you are very good at that, since you managed to dive to the destination and back for 2 times!!  :D).
Next time when you go diving, try the 'search for 1 minute rule', it works for me, maybe it works for you too.  ;)
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#4  Postby Ketam » Fri May 27, 2011 12:53 pm

Hi Sherman,
That was a terrible incident you faced. For Ketam, always agree and discuss all situations with buddies and divemaster/instructor if you are not confident. Ketam remembered early diving incidents where Ketam lost buddies or other divers in the groups while diving. There you are thinking what should you do, look for your buddy, ascent [-(, just head on :$, trying to remember was the reef on the left or right :D and so on. After taking photos underwater it became much worse, some subject just entrance you that you forget to look up once a while to look for other divers and their directions.

There was one dive at Paradise1 (Mabul) where it was a night dive. Lost the group, look for the group found a group, not the group I was looking for, saw another group, again not the group I was looking for. But over time, Ketam and Nette has developed a sort of understanding on taking photos and lost buddy/group situation. What bro Irukanji brought up is true, in lost buddy situation, take a minute to look around then ascent. Now you ascent basically to get to clearer waters with more light. This will help to look for bubbles, fins or tanks of the other group. If there is no sightings, surface and look for surface bubble.

Buddy communication is also important but in your case it was a training dive thus maybe you were engrossed with the compass thus losing your bearings (pun not intended LOL) with the other diver. Divemasters and instructors will always inform you, once you are certified, you can dive with a buddy without a need for a guide or divemaster. But in this case since it was a training dive the instructor is responsible for you. Did you pay fir the lesson or was it just an informal session.

The SWV house reef is relatively safe with no boat traffic in the cordoned area but always dive with a SMB/Sausage. In this situation or if there is any emergency release it, on the surface you can wave it to highlight distress.

It is unfortunate that you have to go through it but it will only make you a better diver. There are situations where divers get separated not on their own doing, bad vis or strong currents. Being confident of your actions while being stranded will help you go through the event safely.

Dive safe always.
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#5  Postby sh3rman » Fri May 27, 2011 3:46 pm

Viking.. day dive... better dun spoiled ppl business here right?
thx for the advice ketam.... Actually he plan to charge me.. but after this incident... do u think I'll trust him and pay for the lesson???
Last edited by sh3rman on Fri May 27, 2011 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#6  Postby sh3rman » Fri May 27, 2011 3:52 pm

irukanji... I agree with u... but I seriously very upset on the instructor behavior lo... He is the person who teach us buddy system by the time he do somehing wrong... he tell me I dun need buddy diving there.... WTF..... Can u imagine ur instructor go to take photo when he lost his student....  I dunno why SSI can certified such instructor lo....... The thing that make me angry the most is the way he handle the incident....
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#7  Postby timyang » Fri May 27, 2011 4:23 pm

Sssh! Don't say SSI! Very few SSI instructors in Malaysia.

I can already guess which instructor is yours. Heheh.
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#8  Postby sh3rman » Fri May 27, 2011 5:49 pm

Super Admin... try pm me... see u right or wrong...  :D
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#9  Postby finding grouper » Fri May 27, 2011 7:12 pm

Dear Sh3rman,

i dont know what to say, but kinda funny tho...i laugh alone at office, not for the terrible incident...but for your excellent navigation..if it was me, i will totally lost my way and wondering around down there or just surface and wait them to surface.

Good experience.

Fg
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#10  Postby Bobo® » Fri May 27, 2011 9:51 pm

oit apa ni talk about SSI...  :D

Anyway stick to the rules, search buddy for 1 minute, if can't find ascent to surface. Take care of ur self first.

And for the incident, if u wan to make a report to SSI, go ahead. now the office is here in KL, u can write to

SSI Singapore Malaysia Thailand
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#11  Postby vash_h » Fri May 27, 2011 10:13 pm

i was once left behind as well..

not really my buddy or dive master's fault.. i was taking photographs.. but the least they could have done is come searching for me.

my corrective action: i went and bought myself a sausage.. hahahahahahaha..
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#12  Postby yeekeong » Fri May 27, 2011 10:50 pm

Preventive action : buy rope and tie to your buddy's leg!
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#13  Postby sh3rman » Fri May 27, 2011 11:43 pm

finding grouper wrote:Dear Sh3rman,

i dont know what to say, but kinda funny tho...i laugh alone at office, not for the terrible incident...but for your excellent navigation..if it was me, i will totally lost my way and wondering around down there or just surface and wait them to surface.

Good experience.

Fg




Dear Brother FG... u are so bad la... this is the 1st time I experience this kinda situation... at the moment I really dunno why I scare that my instructor will search for me lo.... but the result really disappointing.....
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#14  Postby ckchong » Sat May 28, 2011 12:53 am

Ya bro u can write in.....
For my understand....at SWV house reef is very safe to dive and the 1st day before diving there have beefing mention on the rules off SWV "U can dive at the house reef Alone" before 5pm. Off  course buddy system alway, but some time u will get lose too....hahahahaha :P for me i just feel that is a good experience....lucky u lose at house reef my friends, believe me u will get lose 2nd time if u keep diving. So pls prepare your self ever time u go diving. :P hahahaha. i'm not SWV staff but i dive with SWV some many time and i feel comfortable.....


Bobo® wrote:oit apa ni talk about SSI...  :D

Anyway stick to the rules, search buddy for 1 minute, if can't find ascent to surface. Take care of ur self first.

And for the incident, if u wan to make a report to SSI, go ahead. now the office is here in KL, u can write to

SSI Singapore Malaysia Thailand
Andy Taylor
Business Development Manager
E-Mail: andy@divessi-smt.com
Mobile: + 60 14 6227225
D3-U1-13A, Block D3,
Solaris Dutamas, 50480
KUALA LUMPUR
office@divessi-smt.com
03-62112717
Monday to Friday: 08:00 - 16:00
Saturday: 08:00 - 13:00
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#15  Postby sh3rman » Sat May 28, 2011 10:15 am

ckchong wrote:Ya bro u can write in.....
For my understand....at SWV house reef is very safe to dive and the 1st day before diving there have beefing mention on the rules off SWV "U can dive at the house reef Alone" before 5pm. Off  course buddy system alway, but some time u will get lose too....hahahahaha :P for me i just feel that is a good experience....lucky u lose at house reef my friends, believe me u will get lose 2nd time if u keep diving. So pls prepare your self ever time u go diving. :P hahahaha. i'm not SWV staff but i dive with SWV some many time and i feel comfortable.....


Bobo® wrote:oit apa ni talk about SSI...  :D

Anyway stick to the rules, search buddy for 1 minute, if can't find ascent to surface. Take care of ur self first.

And for the incident, if u wan to make a report to SSI, go ahead. now the office is here in KL, u can write to

SSI Singapore Malaysia Thailand
Andy Taylor
Business Development Manager
E-Mail: andy@divessi-smt.com
Mobile: + 60 14 6227225
D3-U1-13A, Block D3,
Solaris Dutamas, 50480
KUALA LUMPUR
office@divessi-smt.com
03-62112717
Monday to Friday: 08:00 - 16:00
Saturday: 08:00 - 13:00



Yo Ck..
u guys still don't understand why I feel upset? its not the matter of dive alone or dive in a group. Its about the responsible as a instructor lo.... Anyway thx 4 the advise...
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#16  Postby timyang » Sat May 28, 2011 12:39 pm

sh3rman wrote:Yo Ck..
u guys still don't understand why I feel upset? its not the matter of dive alone or dive in a group. Its about the responsible as a instructor lo.... Anyway thx 4 the advise...


The problem is a lot of instructors are like that because they think you won't do anything about it.

Make a complaint.

And if SSI won't do anything about it (quite possible), think about doing more publicising.
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#17  Postby sh3rman » Sat May 28, 2011 1:02 pm

Super Admin.... I dunno it's the instructor problem or the institute really dun care much about the quality of their instructor...
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#18  Postby finding grouper » Sat May 28, 2011 1:51 pm

sh3rman wrote:
finding grouper wrote:Dear Sh3rman,

i dont know what to say, but kinda funny tho...i laugh alone at office, not for the terrible incident...but for your excellent navigation..if it was me, i will totally lost my way and wondering around down there or just surface and wait them to surface.

Good experience.

Fg




Dear Brother FG... u are so bad la... this is the 1st time I experience this kinda situation... at the moment I really dunno why I scare that my instructor will search for me lo.... but the result really disappointing.....


Dear Sh3rman,

1st at all...im a miss...lol...hey, you should be proud of yourself, manage to think....i understand the FEAR...i was lost once when i was doing reef check, at open water, can not see any land..with strong current, bad visibility, and worst is my transect line broke at the middle, when i was wait for 15 min my reef check buddy still not in front of me..i follow the line back and its GONE in the middle...almost cry in the water...can not think....just go up..by that time i was up...then i start to think, WTH im panicking???i know boat is up there...just surface and wait at the boat...so, its good you can THINK...

Miss FG
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#19  Postby sh3rman » Sat May 28, 2011 4:45 pm

Haha.. Miss FG.. thx for sharing.... ;)
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#20  Postby OziDiver » Sat May 28, 2011 11:59 pm

Get used to missing buddy situation, part and parcel of known risk taken when diving. Stay focused and remember your training. After a few times you panic/worry less and enjoy diving more. Besides solo diving can be fun at times :)
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#21  Postby sh3rman » Mon May 30, 2011 1:03 pm

OziDiver wrote:Get used to missing buddy situation, part and parcel of known risk taken when diving. Stay focused and remember your training. After a few times you panic/worry less and enjoy diving more. Besides solo diving can be fun at times :)


OziDiver, thx 4 the suggestion, butu have to understand, that was a lesson for me on how to make use of the compass underwater, For the 1st time I'd concentrate on the compass and the direction. If that was a leisure dive, I think the dive is totally different...
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#22  Postby vash_h » Mon May 30, 2011 9:17 pm

guys.. its not really about getting lost or loosing buddy or something.. an instructor SHOULD NEVER leave their students ALONE!!

besides, HOW CAN HE BE SOOOOO SELF CENTERED and not share his interesting find?

shermen, if im u, i would go report to SSI, and also complaint to the resort owner as well.. this is really bad..
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#23  Postby yeekeong » Tue May 31, 2011 12:17 am

not sure if he's the instructor at the moment, meaning Sherman taking OW or AOW, but from the story, seems like Sherman is already a OW (min), so he should be good enough to understand how to handle the situation.

if he's still taking OW at the moment of the incident, then shame on the instructor.
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#24  Postby vash_h » Tue May 31, 2011 7:04 am

but it was obvious sherman was learning underwater navigation.. what will happen if she lost her way and end up swimming towards the open sea instead of the resort?
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#25  Postby sh3rman » Tue May 31, 2011 10:42 am

yeekeong wrote:not sure if he's the instructor at the moment, meaning Sherman taking OW or AOW, but from the story, seems like Sherman is already a OW (min), so he should be good enough to understand how to handle the situation.

if he's still taking OW at the moment of the incident, then shame on the instructor.


Means AOW instructor can just leave their students in the ocean... let them handle the situation and the instructor go take photo???? Yee Keong... are u planning to be an instructor???? pls let me know... I'll make sure my friends or family dun learn from u....
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#26  Postby mamakpenang » Tue May 31, 2011 12:34 pm

bro,
don't worry be happy, u make it to the surface and to the dive center, unscratched hehe.....
what happened to you is a valuable lesson in life because it is from your own experience.
next time if you lost, you will be much more relax because you already experience it and u know what to expect and what to do
we can learn one or two things from other people experience, today i learned from your experience.
any dive is a good dive bro........ :D :D :D
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#27  Postby OziDiver » Tue May 31, 2011 1:15 pm

Surface and inflate bcd,  and try and get attention by using whistle, using torch light and signaling s.o.s. If dive resort is in sight, pace self and start back pedaling to shore else don't panic and try to keep moving to keep warm and think positive and wait for rescue to come. Always notify dive centre when you are expecting to complete your dive if you plan to do it by yourself.

d
vash_h wrote:buDt it was obvious sherman was learning underwater navigation.. what will happen if she lost her way and end up swimming towards the open sea instead of the resort?
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#28  Postby yeekeong » Tue May 31, 2011 9:29 pm

sh3rman wrote:
yeekeong wrote:not sure if he's the instructor at the moment, meaning Sherman taking OW or AOW, but from the story, seems like Sherman is already a OW (min), so he should be good enough to understand how to handle the situation.

if he's still taking OW at the moment of the incident, then shame on the instructor.


Means AOW instructor can just leave their students in the ocean... let them handle the situation and the instructor go take photo???? Yee Keong... are u planning to be an instructor???? pls let me know... I'll make sure my friends or family dun learn from u....


sherman, i'm not sure if he's your instructor or not...as i mentioned, if he's your instructor AT THE MOMENT of the incident, then it's entirely his fault.

there are other situation whereby it's your 2nd or 3rd time following your 'instructor' out for a dive trip, (not totally under a OW or AOW course), then you as a OW diver (or AOW) should be sufficiently knowledgeable enough to handle the situation yourself as you've learn the scuba diving do's and dont's and what to do in all these situation.

again i stress, i do not agree on his action of leaving you on your own if he's your instructor at the moment of the incident, but if you're just following him on a leisure dive, you should be sufficiently equipped to handle the lost situation. his leaving you is a bad responsibility on his part, but if you are not able to dive comfortably with your buddy, then i guess you should go for a refresher course, or take AOW before attempting to dive in more difficult situations. you can always opt to abort the dive and surface if you are not comfortable

just my 2 cents sharing, and not to attack or defend anyone's action.
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#29  Postby vash_h » Tue May 31, 2011 9:58 pm

OziDiver wrote:Surface and inflate bcd,  and try and get attention by using whistle, using torch light and signaling s.o.s. If dive resort is in sight, pace self and start back pedaling to shore else don't panic and try to keep moving to keep warm and think positive and wait for rescue to come. Always notify dive centre when you are expecting to complete your dive if you plan to do it by yourself.

d
vash_h wrote:buDt it was obvious sherman was learning underwater navigation.. what will happen if she lost her way and end up swimming towards the open sea instead of the resort?


are you saying its OK for the instructor to leave its students alone to take some photographs?
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Re: Super sucks diving experience

Post Number:#30  Postby run » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:23 am

Quite a good point what vash_h is asking.

its OK for the instructor to leave its students alone to take some photograph(or anything that
could make the instructor purposely leaving the students behind)

Sherman if you are still piss off with the instructor then just write him a letter of complaint to
the resort you were staying. You can go complain to SSI like the advise from Admin Timyang.
As you said in your 1st posting, you seek advise and comments.
MUW has so many instructors, and professional divers. They would love to help and give comments as long as divers willing to absorb and reply the knowledge rationally.

I do encounter a few divers who were mad and unhappy with the treatment from some DM and instructor.
There are certain cases which we can question and comment but when it comes to personal issue, it is unmeasurable.

I remembered during my advance course for navigation.
The instructor had brief before entering the water, if by any chance
i get lost dont be panic do 1 minute search and ascend. "You are already a certified diver. Remember what you have learned during
your OW" he said.

To answer your Q: is it ok for the instructor to leave sherman who is an OW diver behind during the navigation course.
My answer would be, yes. It is base on my logical point of view
My point : It is because sheman already a certified open water. The guide line search 1 minute and ascend is a guideline that is sufficent enough for a diver not to get lost even more while underwater and at the sametime minimizing any hazardous impact on the diver him/herself.
Though i may change my answer to NO when the navigation was being held more than 18meter. Cause an OW student is only eligible up to 18m. More than that you have to dive with an instructor within your group.

Given a scenario such as this:
What if the instructor has been in a difficult situation and he is unable to be with sherman at that moment? Let say he was
attack by a very vicious baracuda and he had to abort the dive.
let make it even more interesting, let say he was bleeding badly.
He has to abort and get back to the DC. He is in pain until he
couldn't remember that he has a student doing navigation that time.Would your judgement be the same about the instructor?
Would you still mad at him and called him reckless?

I didn't say what he did was right leaving you and having fun taking photo. Like you said
sh3rman wrote:The thing that make me angry the most is the way he handle the incident....

The instructor didn't provide a good communication with you. His answer wasn't good enough
to ease your frustration and dissappointment.

Some may not agree with my comments. I am sorry but if my answer is wrong then please update me (about
leaving the OW student).


From what i normally saw navigation routine are done single and with a buddy.
Single means the instructor give the direction to a diver and the diver do the kicking and
reading the compass by ownself.
With a buddy means 1 diver counting the kicking, while the buddy doing the compass.

I remember a diver telling me about his experience doing navigation alone underwater when it was
sunset. Of course the instructor was underwater with him but he told him that
he will wait at the check point.
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