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fatal incident off tioman

fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#1  Postby ezrider » Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:58 am

In the news today, a diver from singapore was fatally wounded, when he was hit by a propellar off a boat.
apparently someone on the boat... started the engine by mistake!?
my condolensence to the diver and his family n friends..
anyone can indulge us with more info?

dive safe
let we who ride, decide
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#2  Postby Arewhere » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:15 am

:( :( :(
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#3  Postby trigger fish » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:20 am

I was at the jetty , I saw the victim being sent for medical attention, :glasses2:

Nothing serious I believe bcos I saw him with his head bandage and walking

normally later in the night while I was having my dinner  :D

Wish him speedy recovery  :angel8:
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#4  Postby justjim » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:35 am

NST Online ยป Local News
2009/03/10
PAHANG:
Diver killed by propeller

ROMPIN: A diving trip to Pulau Tioman turned into a tragedy for a group of friends from Singapore when one of them was killed after being struck by a boat propeller.
The victim, a Japanese known only as Go Ayaka, 29, was hit while diving in waters between Pulau Tioman and Pulau Pulai on Saturday.

Deputy district police chief Assistant Superintendent Zainul Mujahidin Mat Yudin said Ayaka, an accountant in Singapore, was diving next to a stationary boat about 6pm.

A few minutes later, someone is said to have started the engine of the boat.

Ayaka died due to severe shoulder and neck injuries.


Original Source: http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/ ... index_html
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#5  Postby WATERCOW » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:50 am

Another sad story, yet another sorry incident by someone mistake. Appreciate if anyone can provide more details on this tragic incident, so that all of us can learn.

Dive safe, my felllow divers.

My deepest condolences to the victim family.

RIP
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#6  Postby John F SeaDemon » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:57 am

Did he die or did he not? Triggerfish saw him walking.

What was he doing diving next to a boat?
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#7  Postby justjim » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:17 pm

John F SeaDemon wrote:Did he die or did he not? Triggerfish saw him walking.

What was he doing diving next to a boat?


Apparently there's two victim, one is killed, the other is seriously wounded and require plastic surgery hence the bandaged head. Was told they're not diving next to a boat but trying to get into that boat after surfacing from a dive. As to why the propeller is running when there's diver nearby, I'm sure the boatman would have his side of the story, so let's not start the blame game shall we...
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#8  Postby Snafu » Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:12 pm

Hmmmmm...will try to contact the Trip Organiser to know more about it in due time.

Wonder how many time has this happen, divers struck by boat...nobody wants accident to happen but we need to study n look into preventing it or minimize it in the near future.

Condolence to the family members n friends.

:sad10:

Some early reading http://aristo-cats.livejournal.com/31309.html
Last edited by Anonymous on Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#9  Postby Sicko » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:46 am

I think divers need to be reminded to lookout for boat traffic during surfacing....................and not rely on the boatman observing bubbles.
Anyone can do a dive to 100m or more.....
But how many will return alive???
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#10  Postby Eton Pinky » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:14 am

Aiyoh!
I was at Tioman too..
Heard about the news..
But could not be bother as I was busy with my agendas...

To the dead... RIP..
To the injured one... Speedy recovery!!!

Everyone have to really take care of ourselves and other people..
At times silly mistake can cause a life!!!
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#11  Postby John F SeaDemon » Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:27 pm

Sicko wrote:I think divers need to be reminded to lookout for boat traffic during surfacing....................and not rely on the boatman observing bubbles.


Yup...boatman can't see us...but we can see the boat.  Surface near the boat but away from the stern.
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#12  Postby pummkin » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:04 pm

According to sources, these are two separate incidents, one happened apparently at Batu Malang, and it's a female diver of Japanese descent. She was run over by a boat & died on the spot. Diving from an operator on Kg. Genting.

The second person, male, did not die but was diving underneath the Salang Bay jetty when he had a runaway (uncontrolled) ascent & shot up into a boat propeller that had just started up. Received 8 stitches on forehead & no other serious injuries, thank God.

We can conclude that proper use of SMBs could have prevented the accidents but diving (and surfacing) under the jetty is pure ignorance on the part of the diver.
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#13  Postby Atuk » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:55 pm

Sometimes divers have the tendency to surface very near their boat. It should be ok if there are already other divers climbing onto the boat but if there's none, best to do what Demon said, surface away from stern.

Also what Pummkin said about the sausage is true, difficult to go wrong if you deploy it every time.

And if you have to dive under the jetty, drag along a dive buoy la
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#14  Postby nanda666 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:45 am

Honestly, if you look at marine lifeboat propellers (as below)

Image

It has a "guard ring" around the propeller. This safe design has been around for donkey years. And it's so easy...put a ring around the propeller...

We really need to make this a ruling for dive boat la..... :(
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#15  Postby nanda666 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:55 am

This is the version for outboard motors

Image

Simple right?  :)
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#16  Postby ezrider » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:00 am

agree with nanda.. make it mandatory.. sometimes novice divers..surface and pushed by current towards boat... unintentionally.
the rings reduces the risk of propellar strikes
let we who ride, decide
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#17  Postby pummkin » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:13 am

In the case of the Japanese girl, the Hong Kong couple (Berjaya incident), Joanna Jenkins (TAR Parks), 25-yr-old-engineer (Tenggol), 9 other incidents in Tioman (2007), the boatmen were speeding. Even in no-speed zones, sometimes within a metre or two from the SMBs. Having an SMB doesn't guarantee you from not having an accident but it increases your visibility to boats by 50%. I will convene with the MOT & Ministry of Transport in this matter.

I'm looking for DMs & DIs who would form a sub-committee to compile these issues to brief the ministry. Please PM me because I need assistance.
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#18  Postby irukandji » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:13 am

nanda666 wrote:This is the version for outboard motors

Image

Simple right?  :)


Good idea! All the dive boats shall have this!!
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#19  Postby nanda666 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:22 am

You can check out this site:

http://www.rbbi.com/pgic/#guardl

for PROPELLER GUARD INFORMATION CENTER and they have all the vendors, designs and pricing for the guard rings.

Actually, this type of modification can be easily carried out by our boatmen or dive outfits with a little technical knowhow.

Let me know if anyone interested in putting this on their outboard motors. I'll bring my tool kit out to the islands the next time I head out!!!  ;) ;)
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#20  Postby pummkin » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:32 am

90% of the boatmen are not licensed helmsman. They have no knowledge of dive flags, dive floats or any navigational signboards or lights. This is due to the access to the courses that offer this license. Currently the dive industry has to convey a win-win situation with the transport operators but this can only be done through proper channels which is through a live forum with the Ministry of Tourism officials, Ministry of Transport & Jabatan Laut. So far, at the Technical Committee meeting at SIRIM where the ISO Standards for Diving Services is being documented, Jabatan Laut has not sent any representative to the meetings.
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#21  Postby nanda666 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:08 pm

I think if we spend time with committees, commisions, board of enquiry, etc, etc, with the various ministries and "Jabatans", we'll be no further from saving turtles and sharks as to saving humans from injury!!!  :P

Stopping boat from speeding is similar to asking people to stick to 110 km/hr......not gonna happen.

Constructively, I think the SMB (Surface marker buoys) should be part of the standard safety devices just like the alternate air source. Dive resorts/operators should say, "No SMB, No diving!!"..

Combined with the guard ring on the outboard motors, we may improve this accident/incident issue drastically.
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#22  Postby pummkin » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:19 pm

nanda666 wrote:I think if we spend time with committees, commisions, board of enquiry, etc, etc, with the various ministries and "Jabatans", we'll be no further from saving turtles and sharks as to saving humans from injury!!!  :P


If we don't, they won't know the problems the dive industry face & how to govern effectively to help get these 'boatmen' trained & licensed.
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#23  Postby Ketam » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:56 am

People stats are not there, hillside projects are still on and you guys are talking about implementing ruling for divers safety. It is low profile and figures are not there to implement a blanket ruling. It boils down to divers. If you really want safety make sure you follow all the safety procedures and be selective with the dive center you engage. If they are taking extra precaution to be safe and are charging slightly more would you dive with them or look for the cheapest deal in town.

Ketam have known divers who buys the most kencang fins, suit, BCD and such but do not own an SMB, dive knife and such.... they dive safe but accidents happens. Again Ketam thinks (my two cents), don't hope too much from the Jabatans, they have always made decisions which baffles us divers (shark finning in Mabul, Fine. Ocenerium or whatever in Mabul, hey great idea. Protect the whale shark, hey whatever for). So its is actually up to us, if we want remind our buddies and their buddies, dive safe. :glasses9:
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#24  Postby Sicko » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:45 am

Propellers are not the only thing on the boat that can hurt/kill a diver.
The hull of the boat can also crash into an unaware diver with catastrophic consequenses.

A better idea would be to educate the divers with emphasis on every dive briefing on "boat traffic awareness before surfacing". This must apply even with SMB deployed. Never take things for granted.

Better to take care of oneself first than educate some boatman who could not care less or who are not licenced.
Anyone can do a dive to 100m or more.....
But how many will return alive???
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#25  Postby pummkin » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:40 am

I see it from both sides because I have to work with both parties. If voices here do not reach the authorities who know nothing about the incidents, then rest assured, propeller accidents will continue to happen. They prosecuted the boatman who was found speeding in no-speed zones, the boatman of Berjaya resorts but not the rest even though they happen to be speeding past OVER & ABOVE divers' bubbles. This is not the divers fault but the boatman who doesn't want to keep to a low speed when in dive zones.

1) Unless dive centres use LICENSED boatmen, the operator is liable.
2) Unless boatmen were given easier access to take the course, the license will elude them & they will continue to pilot illegally.
3) Unless divers insist on SEEING the helmsman license of the boatman when enquiring with the dive operator, it would be deemed ok to use any boatmen.
4) Unless divers are taught HOW to deploy a delayed SMB with a reel at preliminary level, even divers with 100 logged dives WILL NOT KNOW how to launch one underwater.
5) Unless someone engages a forum with ALL AUTHORITIES concerned with the mediation of Tourism Ministry, nothing will change.

Sharks, corals, oceanarium are all important issues but they pale in comparison with human lives lost due to NEGLIGENCE. Doesn't matter who's at fault, everyone needs to be educated. The only places that offer helmsmanship is Port Klang, Labuan & Kuantan (Syed, correct me if I'm wrong or if there are other places that offer the course).

Even divers who carry SMB, it's pointless if they don't deploy it before surfacing. Even if it's deployed, it's not certain if the boatman will even recognise it.
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#26  Postby Ketam » Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:39 am

Ketam feels that enforcement is important, but feels that we cannot rely on the Jabatans to do anything about it. Not to trivialize the loss of human life, but lets use hillside development as a benchmark. Lots of shouting and lawatan (visits) during the incident, then slowly it filtered, back to status quo.

Making sure boatmen are licensed are a good plan but enforcement are difficult. We as diver can ask but if they are not then what. Inform the authorities? Asked for a different boatmen, ask for money back? What about boatmen who ferry snorkelers? Some of them are so young, they may just be out of school.

Licensing boatmen after a boating accident (it is a boating incident not diving) is good in the long run, how about enforcing the law on land. How many unlicensed motorbike riders are there? What are the jabatans doing?

My two cents is that we as divers have to take up the responsibility ourselves. Make sure we dive with credible dive centers, PADI five stars and such, they may cost more but there are reasons why. Talk to the DM's, bring up your concern bout safety. Finally, practice safe diving. We can also have sessions on safety, where the sifu's talk about safety procedures and their experience. We should also have sessions at the pool on SMB deployments.
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#27  Postby wolfus » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:52 am

Ketam..... i support your suggestion....
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#28  Postby pummkin » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:50 am

Ketam wrote:Licensing boatmen after a boating accident (it is a boating incident not diving) is good in the long run, how about enforcing the law on land. How many unlicensed motorbike riders are there? What are the jabatans doing?


You are not not seeing the point. It's not so simple as just licensing. It's a helmsmanship course which one has to learn to pilot/maneuver  the boat & steer the ship, understanding the navigational aids & signs & recognising sea conditions. It's a means to apply for the license to pilot a boat. Not licensing the boatman after he's killed someone. That person ought to be prosecuted, not take a course afterwards.

Ketam wrote:My two cents is that we as divers have to take up the responsibility ourselves. Make sure we dive with credible dive centers, PADI five stars and such, they may cost more but there are reasons why. Talk to the DM's, bring up your concern bout safety.


That goes without saying but how many of you divers believe that you can fly immediately after your open water course & organise your own trips without a qualified leader & guide to take you to places you've never been or not familiar with, only to surface in the path of boats??? Diving with 5 Star establishments gives you a peace of mind that the rental equipment is in order, service is up to par, boats are comfortable but when you are in the water, no one can stop a reckless speedboat from entering the dive zone and no one can stop you if you have a runaway ascent, prevalent in divers who tend to press the inflator button instead of the deflator button when ascending. Your ascent rate should not be more than 15metres per minute at to 6 metres and 6 metres per minute to the surface. This means if you are at 30m, you should take at least 2 minutes to reach 6 metres. When you are at 6 metres (the depth to deploy your delayed SMB & check that you empty your BCD) it should take a minute to reach surface. The greatest risk in diving exist in the first & last 10metres of water where the onset of arterial gas embolism happens.
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#29  Postby Ketam » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:22 pm

I got the point there pummkin. By right, why should divers go through the licensing procedures then be brought to the dive site by a pilot who is not even trained. In fact any vehicle that can cause bodily harm should be operated by trained personnel.

Ketam's issue was with relying with the Jabatans. Firstly the have been ineffectual to various other incidents involving human fatalities and policies. To be fair, enforcements and training are difficult to implement and Ketam brought up the issue that statistics are not there to support a big move in policies. Again Ketam do not mean to trivialize human loss but 30 million people and how many boating accidents?

On the boatmen involved in the incident, a full investigation should be carried out before we pass judgment, if he is guilty, prosecuted him to the fullest extend of the law. But Ketam had various encounters with boatmen, once a boatman who has 10 years experienced being a divemaster in Layang-Layang. Very professional, very pushy on safety procedures and such. Another was a guy bout 18, knew the area pretty well but doubt if even had diving experience. On SMB safety procedures, boats are not suppose to be what, 100 feet from these, are all boatmen familiar with this.

Wokey, first thing first, how can we inform all boatmen on this simple ruling. An informational sticker of sorts for all boats in our waters. What are your thoughts people?
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Re: fatal incident off tioman

Post Number:#30  Postby nanda666 » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:01 pm

pummkin wrote: even though they happen to be speeding past OVER & ABOVE divers' bubbles.


"Over & Above divers bubbles" is very different from "over & above divers SMB", isn't it?

I think this is the point that Ketam was making by saying that divers need to take responsibility too.

If we cross the road without checking the traffic, then blame the speeding car, yes you can but I rather not meet the accident in the first place rather than look for means to prosecute the errant driver.

If all divers deploy the SMB on every accend (Or even ensure that one is deployed in the vicinity of their accend) we could avoid these incidents or at least reduce the probabilities of them occuring significantly.

In addition, I'll make it a point now to include SMB deployment in the Open water classes that I teach, can? (PADI does allow the incorporation of additional teaching syllabus for "local diving".)
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