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Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#31  Postby w_knight » Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:12 pm

guys .. this is what i get from another forum ... i think that one the original writer was there .. here is the post.


+++++++++++++++++++++++

Deepest Condolences to the Chia family.

1st hand account:

Water condition at entry: flat
Current: 0
Water condition at end of dive: mild waves
Current: 0

2 groups night diving at jetty (customers + crew). leisure group (8+1) descended at 2000hrs, AOW (6+2) descended at 2010hrs approx. leisure leader (me) ending dive time at 2043hrs after noticing single fin on bottom and commotion on the surface.

diver ascended toward end of dive though group still in water. reason for ascent unknown. diver hit by prop of boat, severe cuts on forehead, right temple and both arms.

(other schools) instructor and dm provided immediate assistance to stabilise victim. med kits and O2 collected from all over the island and other boats. thanks to all who helped!

called for speedboat but sea too choppy in open water (beyond lang toward mersing) for speedboat, bluewater express came in instead. diver loaded on at approx 2105hrs with immediate departure. BW express arrived mersing jetty approx 2345hrs.

no other divers were injured. no instructors were injured - physically.

2nd hand account:

bwexpress called for marine police cruiser when in radio distance to mersing but they refused to come out. mersing police refused to include this exchange in the official report. diver passed on approximately 10 minutes outside mersing jetty.

ambulance on site at mersing jetty but stretcher was broken, no O2 in ambulance, no AED in ambulance. stretcher could not fit in ambulance. no AED in mersing hospital.


Very thankful to:

1. all instructors and dive masters who assisted even though this was not your diver, i understand at least 4 instructors from other schools were on board BW Express and applied CPR for some 20 minutes into and at mersing jetty

2. Captain and crew of BW express for probably nearly blowing out her engines getting to mersing in about
2:30hrs in choppy water and head wind

3. Uncle Sam for allowing the arrangement of Kijang to allow injured diver's friends (3) to leave Dayang first thing on Sunday morning

4. Divers who accomodated the incident by allowing Kijang to be commandeered on Sunday morning

5. To all our divers who understood the mental and emotional fragility of the crew present and did not press the issue at hand

Special thanks to Island Express for pulling up alongside the boat where rescue was taking place. When I requested permission to use your vessel as a conduit to allow our divers to get out of the water first you simply cast off your mooring lines and took off!

Apologies to those I raised my voice at during the incident. Especially my fellow instructors and the divers still in the water. It was not intentional.

Hope this post clears up any garbage that has been floating around in cyberspace.

Other boat names intentionally left out as there is insufficiently conclusive evidence.

With due respect to the family and the diver I will not share the post mortem analysis.

Everyone else, see you in the water soon. Dive safe.


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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#32  Postby Scuba Dynamics » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:24 pm

IF this write up is anywhere near the truth, it clearly shows how unprepared and ill equipped our authorities are and especially in this case, the medical authorities - THE BODY THAT IS SUPPOSED TO SAVE LIVES!!!
I have personally known of ambulances with no O2 and where there was, the crew did not know how to deliver it.

The way I see it from this report is that a lot of people (strangers) came together in a time of crisis but the authorities, OUR MALAYSIAN authorities FAILED!
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#33  Postby Snafu » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:00 pm

Scuba Dynamics wrote:IF this write up is anywhere near the truth, it clearly shows how unprepared and ill equipped our authorities are and especially in this case, the medical authorities - THE BODY THAT IS SUPPOSED TO SAVE LIVES!!!
I have personally known of ambulances with no O2 and where there was, the crew did not know how to deliver it.

The way I see it from this report is that a lot of people (strangers) came together in a time of crisis but the authorities, OUR MALAYSIAN authorities FAILED!


This is not the 1st time bro, how can we improve this? ...or just let it pass & things will be back to normal in no time.
Some people are only ALIVE because it's against the law to KILL them...really!!!
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#34  Postby Scuba Dynamics » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:04 pm

Nope! Not the first nor will it be the last. WE don't have to do anything as it will be a forgotten issue rather soon, like all the other incidences. Malaysia Bolih!!
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#35  Postby IkanBilis » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:30 pm

My condolences to the Chia family, we divers, feel for the family of the unfortunate fellow diver and our thoughts are with the family as they go through this loss.

I agree with Uncle Henry, this is not the first time. When I was 13, when Lido Beach was still pristine, I rescued a drowning youth from about 8ft of water. Bringing the person ashore, I was assisted by an elderly man and a lady. Together we administered CPR while someone called an ambulance. The youth showed a faint sign of life, the pupils were not dilated.

When the ambulance arrived from Sultanah Aminah Hospital nearby, we were shocked as all they have is a stretcher, and absolutely nothing else. The kind gentlemen and the lady agreed to accompany the youth to the hospital while continuing CPR. The ambulance driver and the assistant were not happy with that, but the gentlemen given them a stern warning that he will personally report to the hospital's director if he is not allowed to assist.

Till this day, I don't know what happened to the youth, but I do sincerely hope he is alive and well, thanks to the two kind souls.

I only hope that someday, some corporate companies would come to realization, and pool their resources to buy a few hundreds fully equipped ambulances four our health services. They should also train Emergency Medical Technicians (EMT) to stabilize victims of trauma, drowning or burning, from shock, and provide first aid on the way to medical centers.

But after 30 years of hearing the same story of empty ambulances, I simply don't have the hope that will ever happen.
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#36  Postby Nizaha » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:24 pm

Holy smoke...!!!

WTF!!! Marine police refuse pick up the injured person..!! I'll shoot the sheriff!! It's not the 1st times marine police refuse to the death body. when I was  in Tioman back 2004. On the way back from Salang to ABC, I saw floating body around monkey bay.. we radio the PC( Police boat) and they arrive at monkey and they told us to pick up the death body. I say Why, you're  here already, they say because our boat have platform at the stern.. I say this's not our jobs also that times We have tourist on the boat.  What I did, I just left the scene and let them(police) let do the jobs.. that's ridiculous !!


Safe diving
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Last edited by Nizaha on Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#37  Postby Scuba Dynamics » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:28 pm

Yes Abang Nizaha - WTF!
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#38  Postby seamonkey » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:41 pm

condolences to the family.

Its kinda hurt when knowing such incidents. But ambulance w/o O2? yeah..WTF!
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#39  Postby blackbear » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:47 pm

my deepest condolence to the Chia family and a heartfelt thanks to those who tried to help the diver...

Its sad to know that every year incidents take place but the people responsible either choose to ignore or pass the
buck elsewhere..

Snafu's query is rite.. WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? (not shouting here k.. folks)
Today its a fellow diver albeit not known to most of us but tomoro it maybe from among one of us...

How do we ensure such incidents do not go un-noticed or the persons responsible go un-punished?

How do we cojole the authorities to to pay attention to these situations?

Can the senior people within this forum formulate an action plan that we can use to draw attention to these incidents?

Am sorry but a life is lost due to negligence the Bear feels a little rage within... and no the rage is not influenced by the
rise in petrol price.. In fact the Bear will gladly embrace the price hike IF the authorities are more responsive to these incidents..

But then .. After a 30 year wait bro Ikan Bilis hasnt seen it happen.. why should the Bear have such hopes aswell..

and the Bear agrees with bro Nizaha with a mighty roar: WTF!!! forgive the Bear if his words are offending...
Last edited by blackbear on Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#40  Postby Scuba Dynamics » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:59 pm

Hear hear. It is high blardy time the relevant authorities got their acts together and although I cannot give a  "mighty roar", I hope my little squeek will travel somewhere and with a little bit of luck, will fall in the relevant ears.. My condolences too to the Chia family and may you go with God Chia the victim.
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#41  Postby jgshuwei » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:35 am

Everyone is talking about the authorities here, ie Police and Hospital, but why this accident happened? Is there a proper route (marked by bouys) for the speedboats to approch the jetty? Did the speedboat slow down while approching the jetty? Is the boatman properly trained? Is the boat equipped with lights? Why the diver ascend while hearing there's a boat approching? So many questions who can tell me why?
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#42  Postby Divejohor » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:41 am

What really piss me off to hear that every time a diver or snorkeler gets hit by a boat ,(they) the boat operator just gets away with it.
They must be taken to court (jailed)for not keeping a save vessel speed in diving areas.
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#43  Postby Scuba Dynamics » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:54 am

I suppose the only person who can answer these quetions is the victim but:

1. What happened? Who, apart from who were there AND saw what happened can answer that?

2. Route marked for speed boats? Wasn't it mentioned that this tragic incident happened at the jetty and was it a speedboat??

3. Did the speedboat slow down while approaching the jetty? Who was on the speedboat to testifiy this???

4. Boatman qualified?? How many boatmen in Malaysia are really qualified AND stick to what they are taught in "Rules of the Road"????

5. Is the boat equipped with lights? Would this have helped the poor diver who was underwater at that time and how many people know what Maritime lights indicate????

6. Why did the diver ascend while hearing the boat approaching? Did the diver hear or could the diver have been in a state of shock or panic and didn't hear anything?????

7. Who can tell you why? I wish I could and I wish I can prevent such accidents from happening but..... an accident happened and THE AUTHORITIES that are designated to save lives let the poor victim down.
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#44  Postby blackbear » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:56 am

guys..
lots of q.. no answers what so ever..

lets go pro active or just convey our condolences...
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#45  Postby Scuba Dynamics » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:57 am

TOTALLY AGREED.
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#46  Postby Nizaha » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:02 am

Hi everyone..

Malaysia, know as have beautiful island,amazing divesite and beautiful people I'm proud to me malaysian but in other side I feel really shame as malaysian because Our ambulance doesn't have O2. No AED and police doesn't really care what going on.,Horrible.!

Back to the incident : Did his equipment failure during the dives? Light or Buoyancy device ?

                              Did this dives is training dives or leisure dives?

                              Did  guide mention about boat traffic around the sites?
                             
                              Where's he buddy during the ascent or during dives?

I never been to Dayang Island before, so I don't  know the logistic the area. since he dive around jetty.

I don't really care who the boatman,  we all know is common to see 17 y/o boy  drive the boat bring the tourist in the island without the licensed. Why even bother, this already happen. Who gonna catch the boatman if he's local guys or royal family members..

to y'all  safe diving,

Safe Diving
Zaha
Last edited by Nizaha on Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#47  Postby w_knight » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:31 am

Hi All,

My view is the diver .. probably didn't hear or did hear the engine sound ... and keep acceding .. or they in some situation that must accede immediately without paying attention to the engine sound ..

And for boat .. either they didn't see the surface signal or floating signal or it might not have any for them to look out for .. (since the diver might accede  "urgently" ..) .. but than again .. it happen n already happen ... the most valid question is .. what happen next when accident happen ..which we all know now how competence both our medical response team n are marine police are ... (biggest disgrace of all) ...

so how can we prevent or react to this kind of situation when (touch wood) or anybody encounter again. Without depending on our un-equipped ambulance or un-responsive Marine Police ..


Maybe next time when accident happen .. and we call the marine police .. we should tell them .. "hey, over there got (coffee to drink) .. " maybe they will speed all the way to the spot ..
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#48  Postby Mephisto the Heretic » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:20 pm

My condolences to the Chia family and friends. This is a sad thing that happen.

from what has been told its hard to conclude on the event. just let it be.

but before we make any drastic conclusion, may i suggest the situation above is similar to a driver hitting a pedestrian.

blame can be put on the driver for being reckless and blame can be put on the pedestrian for being un vigilant.

It depends on the situation and for this case information is limited.

So before we blame the authorities and roar at them and get nothing out of it (they are incompetent but they are not perfect, we may have too much of an expectation of them) may i suggest that we FIRST become GOOD, RESPONSIBLE AND VIGILANT drivers and pedestrian.

TQM - get things right the first time.
BE FAITHFUL! BE STRONG! BE VIGILANT!
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#49  Postby hoyohoyo » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:24 pm

Hi I'm totally new here... sorry bout not doing my introduction...

I just wanna say... where is the news about this incident, both in Malaysian and Singaporean media? Isn't it funny when we see things through "I heard that...", "My friend was there, he told me that..." and so on...

If this incident was put up into the media, wait, ok fine Malaysian media don't dare to (not exactly though...), what about the Singaporean media? I don't care if a newspaper report with all sorts of allegations, whether or not the marine police got informed, whether or not the speedboat or whatever boat anyhow bang that poor fella (sesuka hati)... at least it triggers the nerve of all the related parties... and people can shout for an investigation...

============================================================

I found this story very confusing now... when some people claiming the poor fella died 10 mins before arriving, some said 30 minutes before... some said it delayed for 2 hours before a random boat sent him to Mersing... some said waves too choppy no sppeedboat... some said noone wants to take the body... some said no O2 admitted at all... some said 2 tanks of O2 finished~~ and yada yada yada...

============================================================

Now the boatmen got blamed for using the propeller to hit that poor guy... but I heard some said they were warned that this jetty got tons of boats in and out even at night... not hearing anything about the diving sausage and so on though... and by the way if the people up there knew ppl are diving down there... did they signal the boat?

============================================================

This could be a court case... the boatman could easily be charged for murdering... but strangely... Why no one surfaced to the ground and shout into the media? I remember cases like "hit-and-run" and the-doctor-killed-my-wife... people go find political parties and shout... why no one? no political party or newspaper care about this incident at all? the demise family and friends think that they want the case close and forget about justice? Or the typical Genting Highlands story which someone paid lots and lots of money to close someone else mouth?

============================================================

Anyway... it is well known that our police and hospital doesn't function well at all... shall any of this case happened, and if you called the emergency line... a helicopter should be coming on the way... well, at least if you called the International SOS Singapore lah...

Reminds me of this lady Zara Davies story... http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/61004

and then the ambulance running out of petrol story...

Anyway... it is quite well-known that our ambulances got nothing inside... panadol maybe got lah... stretcher maybe lah... AED? They may not even have a pocket mask for CPR... you asking for AED?!

Oh and by the way... did the alleged police respond made me think of duit kopi (under-table allowance)?

=============================================================

and IMO... you could do something... if you made a public outcry...

My condolence to the demise family and friends...  :( :(
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#50  Postby reen » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:19 pm

ok i had to butt in here...helicopter..i tot of that but if you know how pulau aur/dayang looks like
there is no space at all to make such landing..
auntie who is a resident at aur..said..i watch so many times people died..but the divers still want to
dive there..most divers been warned...but still they prefer to do it under the jetty..
you want every facilities to be there..all the emergency equipment ..etc...
but the most important thing divers care less about ..is their own safety..
we can argue a lot about the authorities or blame this person or wat....why waste time
complaining to the low position authorities..go direct to the person who has the signature
to approve such O2, chamber or wat ever on the land..i think we have such good cable of divers in
the forum...why not use it...
MIDE 2008 for example...why not use this opportunity to express out this issue.
at least we did something..rather than just give our 2cents opinion in the forum..
I would like to suggest MUW booth to highlight such matters..last year MUW booth was a BIG hit.
Dont laa highlight things that will condem the goverment..but just show something which
the authorities could improve in their development for diving industries in malaysia.
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#51  Postby Nizaha » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:54 pm

Nice comment Reen..

It's time to show everyone who is MUW !!! Do something.

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Zaha
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#52  Postby Janet » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:58 pm

My condolences to the Chia family and friends....
RIP...
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#53  Postby Leafy » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:18 pm

reen wrote:ok i had to butt in here...helicopter..i tot of that but if you know how pulau aur/dayang looks like
there is no space at all to make such landing..
auntie who is a resident at aur..said..i watch so many times people died..but the divers still want to
dive there..most divers been warned...but still they prefer to do it under the jetty..
you want every facilities to be there..all the emergency equipment ..etc...
but the most important thing divers care less about ..is their own safety..
we can argue a lot about the authorities or blame this person or wat....why waste time
complaining to the low position authorities..go direct to the person who has the signature
to approve such O2, chamber or wat ever on the land..i think we have such good cable of divers in
the forum...why not use it...
MIDE 2008 for example...why not use this opportunity to express out this issue.
at least we did something..rather than just give our 2cents opinion in the forum..
I would like to suggest MUW booth to highlight such matters..last year MUW booth was a BIG hit.
Dont laa highlight things that will condem the goverment..but just show something which
the authorities could improve in their development for diving industries in malaysia.



opinion very well said, reen.
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#54  Postby zani » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:16 pm

MIDE 2008 for example...why not use this opportunity to express out this issue.
at least we did something..rather than just give our 2cents opinion in the forum..
I would like to suggest MUW booth to highlight such matters..last year MUW booth was a BIG hit.
Dont laa highlight things that will condem the goverment..but just show something which
the authorities could improve in their development for diving industries in malaysia.

[/quote]


Good one reen!!!Totally agreed!!!!


My condolences to the Chia family and friends................
.....let's get wet and blow some bubbles.......!!!
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#55  Postby jgshuwei » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:22 am

I talked to someone who was there on Saturday (he was the one who told me about this accident). The victim probably died of over bleading (he is not a Dr. anyway) because he saw a wound that without blood flowing out.

The victim was hit by a LOB boat, not speed boat.

He and another instructor had predicted that the victim didn't stand a good chance to make it. O2 tank and AED will not help him, what he needed that time was blood.

And yes, sad to know the victim is very young, 17-18 years old.
 
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#56  Postby Nizaha » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:40 am

MUW should talk more about safety diving at MIDE this years...

Life is too cheap these days!

Safe diving.
Zaha
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#57  Postby reen » Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:50 am

Nizaha wrote:

MUW should talk more about safety diving at MIDE this years...

Life is too cheap these days!

Safe diving.
Zaha


Yess...especially on safety!! I agree...why not instead of just posting pictures of wonderful creatures of the sea, we diplay what is SMB, how it is use, what kind of torch light to bring when night dive.....do you know that some divers are still using that little tiny torch light for night dive..is that suppose to be goood??? no ..small torch is for backup..

It would be helpful if the AJK of MUW booth would go through 5W1H, what, who, why, when, which & how
for the event at MIDE2008.
reen
 

Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#58  Postby Nitrogen addict » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:27 pm

for that fatal accident we actually don't know the real situation.

we cannot blame the boatman or the diver. The Dayang case you also cannot blame the marine police, they can't get to the island due to bad weather.  Well we are not in the position to blame everybody.

We have Divers Alert Network (DAN) can assist us in the matter of diving related accident not only for Deco cases.  We can call them eventho you are not their member. They will assist to evacuate the victim to the nearby hospital. If you are not DAN member at the end of the day you have to pay the cost of evacuation and other related cost.


Please have DAN Malaysia number in your handphone. 05-681948, or Dr. Mohd Yusof 019-6627390 or  their call assist number +61-8-82129242 ( Australia)

During MIDE 08 DAN will be there. Please go to their booth and be a member, get clear picture about DAN. 



Be safe than sorry
Last edited by Nitrogen addict on Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#59  Postby Mephisto the Heretic » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:53 pm

Nitrogen addict wrote:for that fatal accident we actually don't know the real situation.

we cannot blame the boatman or the diver. The Dayang case you also cannot blame the marine police, they can't get to the island due to bad weather.  Well we are not in the position to blame everybody.

We have Divers Alert Network (DAN) can assist us in the matter of diving related accident not only for Deco cases.  We can call them eventho you are not their member. They will assist to evacuate the victim to the nearby hospital. If you are not DAN member at the end of the day you have to pay the cost of evacuation and other related cost.


Please have DAN Malaysia number in your handphone. 05-681948, or Dr. Mohd Yusof 019-6627390 or  their call assist number +61-8-82129242 ( Australia)

During MIDE 08 DAN will be there. Please go to their booth and be a member, get clear picture about DAN. 



Be safe than sorry






Yup, some people, even DAN members fail to see that DAN has a comprehensive covarage (subject to what package you subsribe).

There is more than one way of doing things and what NA said is another venue that we failed recognise.
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Re: Diver died in Pulau Dayang

Post Number:#60  Postby Scuba Dynamics » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:46 pm

GET REAL guys & gals, the poor kid bled out and passed away. A quick evacuation to hospital and an emergency blood infusion might have saved him. Not 02, not AED's but if the dammed marine police had some humanity or sense of pride in being that, Marine Police in them, they could have used one their many vessels suitable for this.

I am starting to get the impression that our waters are left wide open every time there is a bit of wind and slight chop..or perhaps the cops were busy with other things, being a Saturday night and all that, not to mention a scramble of a chopper from Kuantan or Kluang air base and no, reen, although it is nice to have a helicopter landing pad for this,there ARE other methods of lifting a person from the surface to a hovering heli.
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