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Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#1  Postby run » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:59 pm

KUANTAN: A scuba diver who went missing during a dive at Teluk Genting, Pulau Tioman on Friday evening was found drowned on Saturday at 9.40am.

Rompin District Police chief DSP Johari Yahaya said the body of Mohd Afif Abd Hamid, 28, was found by divers helping the Marine Operations Force and Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency in the search and rescue operation.

"The body of the victim was found with his scuba gear intact at the bottom of the sea near the location of the dive which was conducted by a group of scuba divers," he told reporters.

He said the body was sent to the Mersing Hospital for a post-mortem.

Mohd Afif, from Sungai Patani, took part in the dive with 19 others at 2pm on Friday before being reported missing.

Prior to that, his friends tried to look for him around the dive area but failed.

Johari said the dive was organised by a company from outside of Pahang.

Police was investigating to find out if the rules for scuba diving activities set by the Ministry of Tourism and Culture had been followed, he added. -Bernama

-- Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:05 pm --

The diver was with LOB trip onboard black pearl trip 4th-6th Oct.

Dive safe u guys in your next diving trip.

-- Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:52 am --

i tried to ask one of the member in the group for story but my sms havent been replied. I assumed they dont want to make any mis-leading information cause the case is still under police investigation until the final post mortem finish.

I would like share a few infos about LOB trip on-board Black Pearl. If you choose to participate in any dive trip by any organizer, you can always call and clarify
1) how many divers will be participating in the trip
2) how many DM will be assign for the trip.
3) do you know any of the experience divers that will be participating in the LOB trip?
4) ask any divers that has experienced diving with the organizers . Ask something like how the organizer handled with their previous trip.

You must think about your safety because at the end of the day, it will be you who have accept to join the trip. It is you who had sign the liability form meaning that you understood the term of the trip. Nobody force you to join the trip. Cheap dive trip with unlimited dives can be very alluring for divers. DON'T ever get caught into other diver's crazy dive plans.

I want the forumers to read carefully and dont get tooo emotional about the things that i 'm about to share after this. Blaming on somebody else on things that had happened is a just a stupid act. Read carefully, absorb the information carefully, understand what you need to improve after this.

This accident happened under a trip organized by Mentari Scuba. Happened near Tulai Island, tioman. My first time diving LOB black pearl with Mentari Scuba, i learned that only 1 DM assigned to look after all divers on the boat . On the 1st check out dive, the DM would check everyone's ability and most of the time the 1st timer of LOB black pearl would be diving together with the DM. Those divers that already accustomed with such trip will have a group of their own and dive at the same dive site but different profile. Like me i already have a few friends and we often dives together and in a group because i know the DM wont have the time to look out for me. I also know that i cant rely on other divers for my own safety. I always bring along a small dive torch together with me. Just incase during the dive , the viz get ugly. At least divers can see the light from my dive torch as guidance. Viz at Tioman is unpredictable.

I remember my dived at Sepoi Island, tioman . That was my 1st on LOB. The DM jumped into the water and there was strong surface current. Then all the divers jump into the water. Once descend me and my buddy got separated from the group and i was descending very slow while fighting currents due to my equalize problem. Suddenly when i turned to look up, i saw another 2 divers behind me. They too got separated. I signalled them to follow me. I know that we were about to off course meaning away from the Sepoi island. How do i know that , what i saw was only sandy bottom. I didnt do any bearing at all before we descend cause i thought i could catch up with the divers but my thought was wrong. All i can remember before we descend was the boat dock in front of the island so that when we descend we wont need to fin against the current, we just drift. So when i saw only sandy bottom, i know that the drift was taking us to open sea. My judgement at that point was to signalled the other 3 divers to fight the currents and head towards the direction i signalled them cause my gut feel that the island should be at this direction. One of the diver rejected my suggestion and suggested to follow the drift but then i wrote to him" dangerous, drift to open sea. Try to find rocks for shelter". My mind was thinking about 6 Singaporean divers get drifted from Chebeh and out to the open sea. Thank God my guts was true cause while we were fighting the currents i could see a rock and then after the rock i saw a big dark silhoutte . It was the island.Suddenly everything seemed calmed, no currents and pop i saw the rest of the divers taking pictures and so on. I dont know whether i will be lucky next time cause we never know. So again i learned something new, dont expect someone will be waiting for you underwater. Get your navigation before you enter the water.

Other advise i can give you guys, take care when you dive with a guide/DM that also bring a long a heavy camera equipment with him/her. Both of their hands already holding their set of camera equipment, how will they help you incase you are facing with dangerous situation, when both of their hands already occupied? Do you think they will ditch a set of equipment worth thousands to save yourlife? Do you think your life is precious enough for them to save?
I would still dive with Mentari Scuba cause they offer cheap packages for LOB and with them i get to train myself to be a safer diver. I dont get caught with some of the more otai divers cause heck they can do what ever they want, i dont care. If you dont comfortable diving together with the DM then you can try to ask with other groups that you feel safe to be with and ask whether you can join with their group for the dive. if you feel stress at that moment , then skip a dive. Relax for awhile and maybe the next dive you dive with the DM you would feel better. I know it is an argument situation, every diver paid for the trip so it is not their job to take care of divers that not among their group. It is the DM job. I wish that we could put this kind of selfish feeling aside and have more empathy towards each other. Have a positive mind and good fortune will come.
run
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#2  Postby gcg » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:18 pm

My condolences.

Run has written well. The onus is on the diver to ask as much questions to ensure his or her own safety. If a diver is not feeling too well or is uncomfortable for some reason or another, skip the dive. Better to loose some money then your life. The buddy system has a reason for being established. Once you start diving, dive as frequently as you can and not once every other year. If you havent dive for a long time inform your friends and guide and try to do a refresher course. When diving, do look out for each other, we never know when it will be our turn to face problems.... so be a team despite having a buddy. Put your ego at home and go dive. Dont take short cuts from what you learned when you took your license. Too many incidents in the last few months ..... we will never be able to learn from all these incidents as everybody will keep mum, so just be careful when you dive. Plan your dive and dive your plan.....
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#3  Postby missydiver » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:02 pm

this is 2nd incident confirmed on Black Pearl, the last case happened abt 3 months ago with a casualty from Melaka ? there is 1 more incident in 19 march 2012 which i am trying to check on which lob, diver drowned in Pulau Jarak.

-- Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:02 pm --

this is 2nd incident confirmed on Black Pearl, the last case happened abt 3 months ago with a casualty from Melaka ? there is 1 more incident in 19 march 2012 which i am trying to check on which lob, diver drowned in Pulau Jarak.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#4  Postby run » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:01 pm

The previous case diver drowned at Pulau Jahat Tioman. Rumours talk among each other that the diver was having a flu/or was unwell and unfit. Took some medicine before the dive. Got separated from buddy. Later found dead on the sea floor. Newspaper didn't report anything about how the diver could have died. Not like how the instructor and the student case last month. With the instructor, got witness saying that they use the same tank for the next dive.

Its not the Black Pearl that jinx. Its the attitude of the divers with unplanned dives.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#5  Postby missydiver » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:16 pm

i have to partially disagree with you. How can it be unplanned dives? They went onboard lob right? someone surely planned the dives for them...perhaps u meants it in another context. cikguselam blog did write up on the 19 march 2012 incident but did not name the boat involved. FYG, my own circle of divers were onboard the last incident in Pulau Jahat..How all these divers died? drowning of course. How did they drown, i dunno..But with 2 confirmed drowning involving same operator/lob in same year, i would be very cautious on their operating procedure/methods.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#6  Postby run » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:42 pm

missydiver. You can try to search in the forum for description about LOB Black Pearl A thred open by diver999. I described how the Black Pearl operates.The don't have DM. Its the dive operator duties to prepare the DM. Many dives operator book with Black Pearl.

Did your own circle described how the event really happened? The diver really on medication or not like the rumours I heard?
If the dives had been planned shouldn't the diver was with a buddy and had told that he was in medication?
Meaning that some complication can happened during the dive and buddy must be near to help out?
If you go dive , without saying anything. Without briefing anything. Without preparing on what to do if something happened.Wont that be an unplanned dive?

When I dive with anybody for the 1st time, I will tell them before entering the water "when we get down , if u turn around and don't see me, look up. I may not be near to you but I will be above you since I have difficulty with equalizing." this very small info helps a lot for my buddy.

Missy diver like I said in the posting, when you go for a trip, you ask with any of the divers that have participate before in any of the dive operator's trip. Those info can help a lot.It is ok if you want to be cautious with the dive operators. It is your right.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#7  Postby missydiver » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:10 pm

for discussion sake only : since BP has been operating for some time and been taking groups out for dives, shouldnt they by now know a lot of DMs and identify good one and engage them from time to time? Or its has been our local divers culture to haggle prices until its economically unviable to provide inhouse DMs?

On the last incident involving Melaka diver, i cant remember the inner circle story already, need to refresh as its fairly recent and my friends onboard are still affected and traumatised..When they did try to open up a little bit, we were drunk and they were getting a little emotional...
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#8  Postby mamakpenang » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:58 pm

Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi rajiun......
"Surely we belong to Allah and to Him shall we return"
another sad story for divers.......
Takziah......
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#9  Postby run » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:33 pm

BP don't sell dive trips and they don't engaged in selling dive trips. They only sell their facilities and foods to the dive operators to use for dive trips.
This is their terms and if we don't like it then we can always choose Kaleebso.
Kaleebso can assign an inhouse DM for divers.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#10  Postby missydiver » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:44 pm

I wrote " since BP has been operating for some time and been taking groups out for dives". I believe its clear and concise.

Your suggestion " since we dont like it we can engage Kaleebso" sounds very much like our politicians. Why skirt the issue? Issue here is same lob, 2 deaths within 3 months.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#11  Postby run » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:43 pm

It is choice , its not politicians. You please read it carefully. If you don't like it then you don't choose to dive with it. Even mr john Lipmann from DAN the director himself even told me during one of his MIDE expo "its your choice to dive weherever you want or to choose with any dive operator you want. We cant say no don't go dive with this dive operator."

But you can help to spread the news. Like these 2 cases of death. It will help divers to be aware of the situation and even pressure BP and certain dive operators.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#12  Postby missydiver » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:52 pm

Thanks for your input. Highlighting this 2 or more drowning with the same operator (Mentari Scuba) who are selling trips to others on Black Pearl is what i am doing..
Why i used the word operator? Mentari Scuba owns and or/operate Black Pearl. Even if the drowning victims came with other groups with own DMs, ultimately as boat operator, they are responsible.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#13  Postby rushd4n » Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:44 pm

missydiver, the previous accident in the black pearl was not organised by mentari scuba... yesterday 1 yes.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#14  Postby gcg » Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:48 pm

interesting arguments.... in this case I am not sure one can or should blame the boat operator. Lets break it down..... any event or mishap or misfortune can be due to:
1. the boat operator or dive shop
2. dive organizer
3. the individual diver

In this case, the boat operator just gives the facility and food. The facility would be a well maintained boat with dual engines( in case of engine failure) and proper radio services to call for help, proper emergency protocols and safety boats etc etc. It is the responsibility of boat providers to ensure these and for dive operators using them that these facilities are present. Divers should learn to enquire about the LOB they are going to go on. Food provided should be clean and fresh. These are standards we should seek for and be ready to pay for. Dont expect these standards by paying peanuts.

Dive operators should know how many guides they would need to bring for the number of divers they have. There should be proper dive briefings before each dive and safety briefings at every dive. The dive operators should know and be able to assess who is fit to dive and who should be barred to dive. They should assess for currents and viz and inform divers these things as informed divers would be more prepared. Dive operators should take all effort possible to prevent any mishaps. Once a mishap does happen, they should be responsible to do the necessary reports and rescue and be responsible enough to own up.

Divers should be responsible for their health and fitness whether physically or mentally. If one is on medications, please inform the instructor and your buddy. If you are tired or anxious or worried or mentally not well and prepared please have the decency to withdraw from doing a dive especially if the sea conditions are not favorable. If you are not fit then dont attempt strong currents. Fatigue and nausea can occur and many times divers tend to vomit while diving and if it is a newbie, there is a tendency for one to take of their second stage to allow vomitting. Take importance in your open water classes and dont take short cuts.

Now back to this case, from what minimal information there is, it looks like there was an issue with the diver. Was there an issue with the dive operator, maybe if there were inadequate briefing and guides. If all divers were open and would tell the actual story of what happened then we can look into the crux of the matter. Dive operators will be more careful, Boat operators and dive shops would be more diligent. Divers will be more intelligent in making decisions and have more say in what they want. Isnt this what this forum is for? For the overall improvement of the sport. So why are we so afraid to tell the truth and discuss about mishaps in a more proper manner? If we do this, ppl wont simple be making sweeping judgements and start bad mouthing the industry and those working within the industry which would not only bring about bad taste and hatred but also mistrust and destruction in the long run. Personally, i feel that we make a diver's death justifiable by discussing events around the death properly and making a change to those events and not by keeping quiet about it.

I sincerely hope there will be first hand information in regards of the events that took place. I hope if they do so, others dont jump the gun and start a blaming process but rather answer the why and educate other divers about the mistake made. For this forum to continue to be relevant, this kind of openness is crucial.

-- Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:04 am --

missydiver wrote: Even if the drowning victims came with other groups with own DMs, ultimately as boat operator, they are responsible.


missydiver i would disagree with that statement. if I rent you and your friends a car to drive around for your holidays, and one day your friend while driving takes a wink and gets into an accident, whose fault is it? Yes it is your friends fault but it is also all those in the car with your friend who bears a certain percentage of responsibility because as the driver he had too much ego to pull up and admit he was tired and his friends probably realized he was tired but decided that he was adult enough to pull over if he was tired and thus kept quiet or queried him a little. You cant blame me for renting you the car, of course unless i failed to check if you had driving license and insurance, even if I was in the car with you and your friends.

The example above is very much what happens at dive mishaps. Divers have too much ego to admit they are unfit to dive because they paid for it or they feel ashamed that they cannot keep up with friends. Other divers too have become afraid to voice their opinion as we have all become strangers to each other and loss the sense of team work or brotherhood so to speak and also we lack the knowledge and experience to do so. This is where normally the instructor comes in but in recent times even the instructors have very minimal knowledge and experience to exert their opinion.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#15  Postby Charles » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:29 am

missydiver : before you've decided to spread the news with your assumptions, think twice as looking at your posts I can see you have very limited information but assumed too much.

If you would do a lil bit more of reading online I believe it's not hard to find out who's the operator for the June's incident, and also knowing BP only rented out their boat for operators to hire, even divers can also hire them without via operators if you have enough numbers.

What I trying to tell is, rumors are bad and do not circulate if you don't have the actual information of these cases.

Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#16  Postby missydiver » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:45 am

gcg wrote:
missydiver wrote: Even if the drowning victims came with other groups with own DMs, ultimately as boat operator, they are responsible.


missydiver i would disagree with that statement. if I rent you and your friends a car to drive around for your holidays, and one day your friend while driving takes a wink and gets into an accident, whose fault is it? Yes it is your friends fault but it is also all those in the car with your friend who bears a certain percentage of responsibility because as the driver he had too much ego to pull up and admit he was tired and his friends probably realized he was tired but decided that he was adult enough to pull over if he was tired and thus kept quiet or queried him a little. You cant blame me for renting you the car, of course unless i failed to check if you had driving license and insurance, even if I was in the car with you and your friends.

The example above is very much what happens at dive mishaps. Divers have too much ego to admit they are unfit to dive because they paid for it or they feel ashamed that they cannot keep up with friends. Other divers too have become afraid to voice their opinion as we have all become strangers to each other and loss the sense of team work or brotherhood so to speak and also we lack the knowledge and experience to do so. This is where normally the instructor comes in but in recent times even the instructors have very minimal knowledge and experience to exert their opinion.


I will not get into itty bitty bit of info and argue abt ur example of renting car. U and I dont know this victim, all we know is his name and age. We dont know his level of diving experience. Trip was oranised by Mentari Scuba. WHat i know, as of late last night, i saw them posting pictures and posing on fb.

Its somewhat similar(other example than car renting) like the drowning case involving the sporean instructor and student. If u are just renting them tanks and ur facility, dont u have any say when they only want to rent a single tank for the whole weekend? Relatedly, if u are boat crew and or captain, dont u give briefings and find out each and every diver's level of experiece? Shoudl they just let their group leader insists on having things their way?

I dont need to spread the news, its already being discussed openly and this being 2nd incident within 3-4 months ,doesnt u guys feel curious whats wrong with the safety procedure of this boat? As some have pointed out, thre are a few other lobs operating in Malaysia, why not them? Is it because other lobs charge higher price thus have dont to cut so much corners etc? I am not sure, i am here to discuss for the safety for other newbies who dont know any better but to search for cheapest deal ever just to get their diving kick..

Lets be clear again, i am not fault finding here, but just want to know or find out what else can be done better.,ALso lets be clear, i dont own any dive related business nor am i any dive professional to paint the people involved in bad manner.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#17  Postby toodus » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:52 am

Yeah, we just want to find out what happened so we can learn from it. So I don't know why people are tight lipped about all these.
We need to learn from it. Look at Scubaboard forum, detailed report.

Now I know never to swim near the engine of the boat or always bring a SMB.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#18  Postby run » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:11 am

Dear Divers,

Please read this article. DO read!!! cause i know reading is boring but it can save lives

Article taken from Alertdiver. issue 2010
Experience also plays a key factor; about half of all fatalities involved divers with 20 or fewer dives (less than 8 percent of those were students participating in training). The activities and the experience levels involved in the dive incidents provide significant circumstantial data about how the diver arrived in a situation, which in turn led to a triggering event. Although circumstantial, this data is important to the researcher as it provides valuable information on how to prevent accidents long before the triggering event begins.
Knowing the root causes of triggering events probably provides us with the best information for preventing accidents. In the more than 940 fatality statistics studied, DAN identified five significant root causes:
1.Some sort of pre-existing disease pathology in the diver
2.Poor buoyancy control
3.Rapid ascent or violent water movement
4.Gas-supply problems
5.Equipment problems

Please read it more here http://www.alertdiver.com/349


And also from this link. The typical problems with divers. Hey i was among one of them but then i turn around.
http://www.rescuediver.org/rescue-tech/divr-prb.htm

I learned that the late Mr Afif was certified Open Water last month. I talked to an instructor who i know always conduct training on Black Pearl
and he told me a lot of factors could have been the caused of the death.. Please take note that the instructor was not on the trip but he got the news from other people.
1) the dive was with poor visibilty.
2) the late diver got separated with the buddy. The buddy had equalize problem and had to ascend to fix the problem but got separated during this process.



Perhaps during OW , instructors can help to emphasize more about DESCENDING AND ASCENDING during poor visibility. Maintain eye contact with Buddy and not too rush following the group. Buddy with equalize problem can try to fix his problem and at the sametime
maintain eye contact to where the group is heading.


Another common thing that always happen , descend with low visibilty and mild current. The DM had briefed that the group will descend down and will wait at the bottom of seabed (depend on depth). Some time the current happened a few meter from the surface but at the seafloor its calm. Some time neither, so the DM will bring the group to a safer environment. So have to move. obviously the DM will move to safer place that heading towards the dive site. If by any chance a pair of divers descend so slow to the bottom , arrived to the seafloor only to see no one there , they got panic and heads towards oblivion.

MOST often divers that got separated with their group thought that they got separated MILES away but actually they were just a few meters apart from each other.

MOST often divers trapped in a drift thought they will get separated far from each other but actually they can estimate the distance from the speed of the drift of the current. If the drift is the speed of a slow jogger. You definitely know the group wont be far away from you. If the current is as fast as a bicyle speed then the group could have been a little bit far and you need to fin harder.
If the speed like a motorcycle about to break a yellow light then might as well abort the dive before you get even farther from the main boat.

Use what ever common sense that you have at that moment before your common sense reach to its final breaking point and turn into a panic attack.

like i said in my previous posting, when it comes to a diver died. Everyone show its concern/issues/sarcasm but when a diver is saved ,no one want to take part and start a discussion. Always want to have someone to blame. When you know deep down, you really dont know where you limit stands.

During my trip in bali. There was a diver with problem but the diver did not understand that she has a problem. Poor lack of bouyancy, skills, diving with a yoyo pattern and even at one point one of my buddy who is "instructor on a leisure trip" got angry and note the diver to be in a narcosis state. He told the organizer to tell to the diver that the diver should abort the next dive. How the diver react? The diver still want to dive and will behave on the next dive. The organizer had to warned the diver that if the diver failed to show any improvement , the diver would be banned from diving in Nusa Penida. Did i or my buddy blame the DM for that? No cause my buddy knew that this has something to do with diver's attitude.

All and all we bound to face divers that have problem. As a good samaritan we or those divers with more experience try to help them to improve them to dive better and safer. DONT ever critisize them by turning them into a JOKE in front of other divers. That will only give them pressure.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#19  Postby rushd4n » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:15 am

i would say it is his time...

importance info here is:
1) may be hyperthermia. mangsa spotted menggigil before and after each of the dives... when asked him, he said, its ok. ni biasa ni...
2) current from mild - strong
3) bad viz, 2-4 meters
4) buddy separation.

tu je...
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#20  Postby run » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:24 am

missydiver wrote: Relatedly, if u are boat crew and or captain, dont u give briefings and find out each and every diver's level of experiece? Shoudl they just let their group leader insists on having things their way?.


Missy do have a point there.

The crew of the dive boats:
Their duties to help and assist divers than getting on/off the boat. Fill the air to the tanks cum cooking. They will not lead or organize anything that related to diving.
It is the organizer duties.

the captain of the boat:
-Follow the instruction from the organiser to go to which dive site.
-brief the DM where is the entry point and exit point. Any current or not.

missydiver wrote:I dont need to spread the news, its already being discussed openly and this being 2nd incident within 3-4 months ,doesnt u guys feel curious whats wrong with the safety procedure of this boat? As some have pointed out, thre are a few other lobs operating in Malaysia, why not them? Is it because other lobs charge higher price thus have dont to cut so much corners etc? I am not sure, i am here to discuss for the safety for other newbies who dont know any better but to search for cheapest deal ever just to get their diving kick..

this one only the organiser or dive operator can tell you because the price perdiver quoted given by them.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#21  Postby missydiver » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:38 am

thanks for all the input, so we can safely deduct more or less as above possible causes. Since the common contact point of all dive groups are the Captain and crew of the boat, they should for now emphasise on briefings and dive plannings. Same as in all other hazardous working industry, call every dive leader/organisers for short safety meeting and disseminate all these infos. Some captains on lobs i know will make it like friendly chat kind of thing to find eash and every divers level of experience.. We all know nowadays being an instructor and DM is so simple just like taking car licence in the 80s and 90's..
Also curiously, how many divers were assigned to each DM on this trip? 9 to 1? as i understand there are 20 divers per trip?
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#22  Postby run » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:46 am

rushd4n wrote:i would say it is his time...

importance info here is:
1) may be hyperthermia. mangsa spotted menggigil before and after each of the dives... when asked him, he said, its ok. ni biasa ni...


another typical common comment received from a diver when he definitely was having a problem.

Same comment i received from my bali case. When i asked her on every dive she said ok. All during my dive in Tulamben i maintain to be the last diver from the group cause i wanted to eye on the diver even when she signalled ok to me.
Her breathing was not showing an ok for me.
Her finning was not showing ok for me.
Her weights arrangement was also not showing ok for me.

so again if you already notice a diver with a problem , try to make the person feel comfortable and at the same time be alert with his/her situation. It is not only the DM duty but for every diver in the group.

-- Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:52 am --

missydiver wrote:Also curiously, how many divers were assigned to each DM on this trip? 9 to 1? as i understand there are 20 divers per trip?


yeap it is a common practise by Mentari Scuba. Like what i said in my earlier posting, i know the DM wont able to cope with lots of divers so those divers that already accustomed with LOB BP under Mentari, will make a smaller group and dive with different profile at the same dive site. That way can minimize problem. Only the 1st timer and OW will dive with the DM. Thus minimize the total divers that dive together with the DM.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#23  Postby mamakpenang » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:32 pm

rushd4n,
agree with you, time's up.....
thanks for sharing.
question bro.....
"1) may be hyperthermia. mangsa spotted menggigil before and after each of the dives... when asked him, he said, its ok. ni biasa ni..."
does he wearing full wetsuit, 3 mm or 1 mm or shorties
or only rash guard with box shot
how the weather.....raining, cold, temp.....
just curious, is he newbie, just certified few months ago......
we can learn one or two thing from this...... :grin:
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#24  Postby rushd4n » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:39 pm

mamakpenang wrote:rushd4n,
agree with you, time's up.....
thanks for sharing.
question bro.....
"1) may be hyperthermia. mangsa spotted menggigil before and after each of the dives... when asked him, he said, its ok. ni biasa ni..."
does he wearing full wetsuit, 3 mm or 1 mm or shorties
or only rash guard with box shot
how the weather.....raining, cold, temp.....
just curious, is he newbie, just certified few months ago......
we can learn one or two thing from this...... :grin:

he is wearing mares shorty don't know how many mm.
the sea is quite choppy at that time.. the temperature is quite normal also, 29-31 Celsius.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#25  Postby mamakpenang » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:12 pm

rushd4n,
ok tqvm.....
we should know when to skip diving during a trip, if we feel too cold, shivering, headache & tired, just skip the dive & rest......sleep if you can.
i know a friend when he feel cold & he just simply skip the dive......even if he already dive for 5-10 minutes, he will stop and surface
we should not force our self or simply follow others
everybody have a limitation.....fitness level & age factor also play a role......
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#26  Postby niqita » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:57 pm

Anyone know if there is a set ratio for guiding certified divers? As far as I know, PADI only set ratios for conducting certification courses like Open Water, etc.... there is no set ratio for guiding certified divers as all certified divers should be capable of diving without a DM/guide anyway...
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#27  Postby run » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:26 pm

niqita wrote:Anyone know if there is a set ratio for guiding certified divers? As far as I know, PADI only set ratios for conducting certification courses like Open Water, etc.... there is no set ratio for guiding certified divers as all certified divers should be capable of diving without a DM/guide anyway...


There is non from my reading. Nowadays the impact of tourism in scuba diving has increased. The need for tourist and divers to be spoon-feed aka good quality of service aka tank BCD carry , dive to be pampered is a must for the industry. The better the service, the better thumbs up and referrel by customer. Thus good business.

I would like to add something. By now I think some of the readers target Mentari Scuba as being a very bad dive operator. Let me say this, there was one incident happened on 30/6/13. They were doing a dive in Tioman LOB. They started the dive with good condition until at the end of the dive they were hit with a very strong storm. The sea condition was rough. The boat try to get near but the captain were afraid he might hit the divers. The DM in the water instructed all divers to group while holding hands to avoid divers get separated.They managed to get to the boat. The Boat Slapping hard on the choppy water but finally they manage to save all divers including 3 divers from a Singaporean LOB. Did they get any praise for saving all lives??? NO. with this one dead diver , people start to target them and mark them.
So think again before labelling anybody. nobody or no dive operator wants their divers dead.
Sometime people read posting ,they understand it in a different way. Maybe the information is not enough. Maybe that lead to people mis-understood the situation
.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#28  Postby missydiver » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:27 pm

run wrote:I would like to add something. By now I think some of the readers target Mentari Scuba as being a very bad dive operator. Let me say this, there was one incident happened on 30/6/13. They were doing a dive in Tioman LOB. They started the dive with good condition until at the end of the dive they were hit with a very strong storm. The sea condition was rough. The boat try to get near but the captain were afraid he might hit the divers. The DM in the water instructed all divers to group while holding hands to avoid divers get separated.They managed to get to the boat. The Boat Slapping hard on the choppy water but finally they manage to save all divers including 3 divers from a Singaporean LOB. Did they get any praise for saving all lives??? NO. with this one dead diver , people start to target them and mark them.
So think again before labelling anybody. nobody or no dive operator wants their divers dead.
Sometime people read posting ,they understand it in a different way. Maybe the information is not enough. Maybe that lead to people mis-understood the situation


Run, no matter how i read it, you sound rather defensive. Ur given example doesnt show anything but what a Captain and his crew should do. Should a good deed or 100 good deeds cover up a tragic incident? I did read before abt the case abt 3 sporean from another lob had to be saved and i saw many commending the crew of BP.The main issue was, 3-4 months ago, almost same accident happened, diver got separated from buddy and found at seabed. And then this case.
While i fully understand ppl still need to cari makan, i strongly believe if the people involved come out and clarify rather than covering up, it would be great for them in terms of credibility. But of course they also dont have to, who are we to pressure them to tell us anything?

I also find it strange that some ppl are trying to cover up this incident although there were onboard. LIke i mentioned, many ppl can see the pic posted late last night from BP. If a tragic accident has happened, i dont think anyone on that lob would be in mood to post any pics.Heck, i can copy it here if u guys want.
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#29  Postby rushd4n » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:38 pm

i was on board, but i dont see anything wrong with the crew of the blackpearl and also stff from mentari scuba... accident can happen anywhere...
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Re: Scuba diver found drowned in Pulau Tioman

Post Number:#30  Postby run » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:50 pm

missy my intention was to show that some mistake were made by poor judgement. The dive was with poor judgement. Not matter with any dive operator, if the diver
himself/herself do not know how to take care of themselves, the dives can cost their life.

and definitely you have shown that you already have your own point of view towards BP. Your decision is your own and I have to respect that.

As for the pictures, I believe that you better get a consent from the late's family cause if they feel that their personal lives has been tampered. They can sue you.
As for the people who has posted the picture in the FB. Good luck to them.

-- Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:53 pm --

first of all I against of sharing any pix of the dead! Cause it is just NOT right for the pix to be discuss by mere un-professional level divers!
unless isntrcutors and body of professional in diving world to share and discuss for safety then I will not object!!!
really the nerve of people

-- Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:55 pm --

there is border in finding truth and one of them is respecting the dead. OMG I am so mad right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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