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U-859: German submarine off Penang

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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#31  Postby SeaDemon » Mon May 21, 2007 11:13 am

geezz... tech diving lagi  ::)


No, doesn't have to be.

You can always do single cylinder recreational to visit the I-501 and I-502 at over 90 meters. But that's entirely up to you la.


Demon, dont you ever sleep?


What is this sleep, dear? I'm so loaded with drugs I can stay awake forever  ;D
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#32  Postby superkingkong » Mon May 21, 2007 12:28 pm

i sleep he posts... u all sleep also he posts  ;D
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#33  Postby dikiz.m.s » Mon May 28, 2007 11:09 am

Hi there fellas,

   any reports on the dives made to this wreck. how was it? hope to get some info from the any who dove the wreck. Will there be any dive to this wreck again sometime soon?

Regards
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#34  Postby SeaDemon » Mon May 28, 2007 11:31 am

Hi there fellas,

   any reports on the dives made to this wreck. how was it? hope to get some info from the any who dove the wreck. Will there be any dive to this wreck again sometime soon?

Regards


We didn't get to dive this wreck that weekend as there was thunderstorm and waves 2.5m high
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#35  Postby dikiz.m.s » Mon May 28, 2007 11:50 am

Hi there fellas,

   any reports on the dives made to this wreck. how was it? hope to get some info from the any who dove the wreck. Will there be any dive to this wreck again sometime soon?

Regards


We didn't get to dive this wreck that weekend as there was thunderstorm and waves 2.5m high


Thanx,

        Well, if anyone have had experience diving her please share your story and advice. keep us all informed for more wreck dives yeah.

S.A.F.E - Blow bubbless guys, Blow Bubbles
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#36  Postby scubasteve » Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:56 pm

Hi has anyone dived the German submarine U-859 sunk off Penang on 23 Sep 1944? Keen to hear any dive reports
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#37  Postby John F SeaDemon » Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:10 pm

Hi.  Can you do an introduction of yourself on the Introduction thread please?  ;)
-If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying-
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#38  Postby Shaneinpenang » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:50 am

Hi,

I'm thinking of diving this wreck in the near future and would be interested in talking to anyone who has dived it in the past. I'm particualary interested in the depth of the wreck for gas planning purposes. I have heard two stories as to the depth. From a survivor who was on the sub when it went down, he said it was in 150ft (approx 45M), while the marine charts for the area and this forum place the wreck in about 30-35M. Obviously there is a vast difference in the planning required for a 30M dive vs a 45M dive and I'd really like to know what I'm getting myseld in for before I'm actually on top of the wreck.

I'd also understand that there is a fair amount of fishing done in the area. I'd also be interested to know about any entanglement hazzards (lines, nets, etc etc.)

Any help appreciated,

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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#39  Postby John F SeaDemon » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:30 am

Hi Shane,

Welcome to MUW. I'm sure the members would like to get to know you better since you already have two posts but no introduction of yourself.  Do introduce yourself and since you also talked about gas planning and dives down to 45m, please include your certification level in the introduction too, please.

Thank you and have a pleasant stay in MUW.  B-)
-If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying-
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#40  Postby John F SeaDemon » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:14 am

Shaneinpenang wrote:Hi,

I'm thinking of diving this wreck in the near future and would be interested in talking to anyone who has dived it in the past. I'm particualary interested in the depth of the wreck for gas planning purposes. I have heard two stories as to the depth. From a survivor who was on the sub when it went down, he said it was in 150ft (approx 45M), while the marine charts for the area and this forum place the wreck in about 30-35M. Obviously there is a vast difference in the planning required for a 30M dive vs a 45M dive and I'd really like to know what I'm getting myseld in for before I'm actually on top of the wreck.

I'd also understand that there is a fair amount of fishing done in the area. I'd also be interested to know about any entanglement hazzards (lines, nets, etc etc.)

Any help appreciated,

ShaneinPenang


Hi Shane,

The wreck of the U-859 is actually in 23m of sea water but in bad viz, strong currents and yes, lots of entanglement hazards.
-If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying-
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#41  Postby irukandji » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:27 pm

I wanna join if you guys are going. AOW certification can join ah? I just play play around lar, don't want to penetrate.  :D
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#42  Postby John F SeaDemon » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:35 pm

irukanji wrote:I wanna join if you guys are going. AOW certification can join ah? I just play play around lar, don't want to penetrate.  :D


Find a buddy, I'll give you a fishing net. You guys can drift dive and catch as many fish as you can so we can all have good food after the dive  :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#43  Postby Scooter » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:44 pm

Hi SeaDemon,

How do you know that there are lots of entanglement hazards?

When did you dive the sub?
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#44  Postby John F SeaDemon » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:50 pm

Scooter wrote:Hi SeaDemon,

How do you know that there are lots of entanglement hazards?

When did you dive the sub?




Hi Scooter,

Can you introduce yourself in the Introductions thread please.
-If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying-
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#45  Postby irukandji » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:53 am

John F SeaDemon wrote:
irukanji wrote:I wanna join if you guys are going. AOW certification can join ah? I just play play around lar, don't want to penetrate.  :D


Find a buddy, I'll give you a fishing net. You guys can drift dive and catch as many fish as you can so we can all have good food after the dive  :D :D :D :D :D


The current is really that strong? Cool! But I ain't taking any unnecesary risk.  :)
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#46  Postby Shaneinpenang » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:20 am

Thanks for your response Sea Demon.

23M is the most shallow report I have heard on U859 yet. May I ask if this depth is from personal experience (ie. have you dived the wreck yourself)? I have found a lot of information on the sub, but none from anyone who has actually dived it themselves.

Also, you report there are a lot of entanglement issues. What sort of issues are we talking about? Fishing line, nets, antenna cables from sub???

I look forward to your response.

Shane.
Last edited by Shaneinpenang on Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#47  Postby Scooter » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:22 am

Arthur Baudzus, a survivor who actual is one of the few submariners who managed to escape from a sunken sub by exiting through the hatch and to shoot up to the surface unharmed is stating a depth of appr. 45 meter. This is based on the last depth reading which was made known to the crew earlier.

My marine charts indicate only a depth of 29 -32 based on my coordinates. This is in line with people I talked with who went fishing at the wreck (depth readings via 'Fishfinder').

The german goverment refers to appr. 30 m in several court documents.

Most accurate should be the depth of 30 - 32 meters given to me by somebody who actually dived the wreck some years ago.
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#48  Postby John F SeaDemon » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:16 am

Arthur Baudzus was an electrician at the U-Boat yard who was drafted into the silent service without prior training because KptLt Johann Jebsen wanted an electrician quickly without prior training.  His accounts of the sinking, to me, seem doubtful.

1) He claimed that a single torpedo hit the sub and broke it into half before sinking.  He also claimed in an interview that he shouted out for the last depth sounding reading and someone yelled back in the darkness "50 meters!"  How was he, an untrained electrician, being blasted out of his bunk just moments prior to that, had any time or opportunity to ask for depth readings when the first thing he should be doing is to get the hell out of that tomb.  I was a skydiver and have been in a situation where our one of the two engines of our aircraft had caught fire as the aircraft was climbing after take off. We all bailed out without asking any question such as, "Is there enough altitude for me to bail out safely?"

Going back to the torpedo blast, had it hit amidships, that would have killed the captain and the sonar operator - the two men who would have known the last depth reading.

2) Penang was a Japanese port.  Allied subs were always waiting for opportunities.  If the depth was 50 meters, why hadn't the sub dived to avoid unnecessary detection?

3) Mr Baudzus also mentioned that he had put on his Tauchretter prior to leaving the sub.  This is what the Tauchretter manual says:

Image

My German may be crappy but paragraph A clearly indicates that the Tauchretter can only be used in depths not exceeding 20 meters.

4) Mr Baudzus authored the book U-859 based on his experiences aboard the U-859.  However, the book is categorised under FICTION.

The wreck was dived by several recreational divers that included a reporter and photos and story was published in a local daily several years back.  They were all diving single cylinders of compressed air.

The depth I extracted from http://www.recntec.com/diveshop/wrecks_db/wreck_det.php?recordID=27 which in turn was based on the salvage documents.  I had made preparations to go there end of 2006.

The wreck is a haven for both anglers and commercial fishermen.  Deeper wrecks in the area such as the HMIJNS Kuma, HMIJNS Haguro, submarine UIT-23, all have parts of them covered by fishing nets and lines.  It would be unwise to assume that the U-859 is free from physical obstacles, what more in the given visibility of the Malacca Strait with proximity to both Penang and the mainland.
Last edited by John F SeaDemon on Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#49  Postby karip » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:59 am

woo...very interesting...tell us more!!!
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#50  Postby Shaneinpenang » Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:34 pm

Actually Arthur Baudzus didn't put on his escape gear. When he hit the surface he was as naked as the day he was born. One of my colleagues e-mailed Aurther last week (he's still floating around and living in Australia), and in that e-mail he explained that he found himself at one of the hatches completely naked and had to decide wether to try to find his escape gear in the dark, or be the first one out the hatch. Considering the depth and warm tropical water he opted for being the first out the hatch.

Thanks for your response Sea Demon and the link to RECNTEC. I might actually give them a call to see if they have more info. You mention that you planned a dive there from the salvage documents. Do you have a copy of them I could look at. The only salvage documents I have been able to find relate only to the court case after the salvage, and unfortunately do not mention depth at all.
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#51  Postby John F SeaDemon » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:01 pm

Hi Shane, thanks for the clarification.  The author of that RecNTec document is Erik Engberg who no longer works there.  You may find his contact details here http://www.technical-diving.net/
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#52  Postby Scorpenesub » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:12 pm

Wow...interesting history to the wreck....Thanks for the research, guys...
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#53  Postby Scooter » Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:39 am

When there is an ‘A’ there is normally also a ‘B’!

As Shaneinpenang pointed out Arthur Baudzus didn't put on his escape gear. Nevertheless it’s an interesting question from which depth the Tauchretter can be used.

The Tauchretter manual actually states the following:

A. Ascents from depths shallower than 20 meters
B. Ascents from depths deeper than 20 meters

Under paragraph B. section 2. the manual even describes the procedure for ascents from depth up to 100 meters.

That must be hell of a ride! Scary thought. I wonder if actually anybody ever survived such an epic ascent from such a depth?
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#54  Postby John F SeaDemon » Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:23 pm

Hmm...I wouldn't dare give it a try.

We should try dive this wreck some time.
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#55  Postby Scooter » Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:24 pm

Hi SeaDemon,

You mentioned that the wreck was dived by recreational divers and that a story was published in a local newspaper years ago.

Do you happen to have this article or know somebody who has it? I would be interested to get hold of it! Who were the divers, any idea?

Cheers
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Re: U-859: German submarine off Penang

Post Number:#56  Postby John F SeaDemon » Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:01 pm

I don't have a copy of the article, dude.  It was in one of the malay dailies several years back.
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