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burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

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burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

Post Number:#1  Postby zaide » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:39 pm

I went to Perhentian last week and had a gud dive. Anyway, I would like to get some opinion fr our experience diver regarding a prob that I have with my left hand.

Image
While preparing to take a shot of this shrimp, I didnt notice that there was a stone fish or scorpion fish on the sand. All of a sudden, I felt a very sharp poke to my finger. I was kinda shock to see a scorpion fish.

Silly me ... I took the shot of the fish...
Image

As I didnt feel any pain, I hv decided to carry on with the dive. After the dive, my finger turn to red. Its like I get burned by fire.
Wanted to go to the clinic but was told that it closed on friday. My buddy, sepet get some hot water n lime and ouchhhhhhh ... it hurts laarrr.

The next day, the finger was OK but I have a burn marks on my hands. It was kinda reddish but after 3 days, it turned to a dark color (kinda black). Still no pain but only itchy. Its almost a week now and things r gettin better (maybe after I decided to c the doc)

Image

What causes the burn? Was the burn marks caused by the fish or maybe, jelly fish? or what?
Care to share your opinion?


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Re: burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

Post Number:#2  Postby xr250dude » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:55 pm

Hello, nice nice pictures. I admire your presence of mind in capturing the picture of the Lion fish. I am not an experienced diver and have no idea how it feels to be stung by any venomous critter. I do know a thing or two about treatment though.

The mechanics of venomous injuries are the same. Twofold. Initial mechanical injury introduces subdermally by teeth, beaks, barbs, fangs/stinger/spines etc. The larger the size of the break in skin the higher your risk of an opportunistic secondary bacterial infection for example tetanus. Lion fish are quite known for this and you should consider an antitetanous shot not so much for this incident but for the next. Another example would be the Komodo, with its deadly bacterial brew in its saliva, it causes a rip roaring wound infection. Brittle spines that get embedded and breakoff would theoretically increase this risk also. Though not unknown, I have only read about stingers that causes immediate death due to the location of the strike e.g croc hunter.

The second and probably more important effect would be the antigenic nature of the venom. Its well known that most snake bites and stings thankfully do not impart venom, however if it does, venom derrived from a pot puree of proteins are all highly antigenic, (basic training calls for hot water immersion of the part affected in effect to denature some of these proteins without denaturing your hand) our immune system tends to over react to the presence of this foreign protein by numerous cascades of immune reactions most causing the release of various substances that causes colateral damage to tissue, initially seen as redness, warmth, swelling, pain and immobility, the classical signs if inflammation (as opposed to infection). The initial reaction could rarely be systemic (involving multi systems) severe enough to cause fairly sudden anaphylaxis towards hypersensitive individuals, e.g, cardiovascular collapse, airway obstruction leading to death. Its a good thing most reactions tend to be local.

The toxigenic nature of venom is however more well known, i.e venom causing direct necrotising (tissue death), neurogenic (nerve paralysis) and what have you and its consequences.

Coming around to the picture of your left hand, whats apparent is the darkening and creasing/wrinkling of your skin where the alleged sting took place. The darkening is due to recent past collateral damage, blood cells being destroyed and the way our body deals with blood residue, haemosiderin. The wrinkling suggest the inflammatory period is over and swelling is subsiding. I can't make out a physical puncture and also the absence of bleeding which would probably rule out a spine attack. I would however state that your wound would be more that a few days old and that it could be that the puncture had healed. All in all, I am thinking jellyfish.  ;)
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Re: burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

Post Number:#3  Postby BWRAF » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:13 pm

wow - great reply

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Re: burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

Post Number:#4  Postby mauimugen » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:27 pm

Bro Zaide.... hows the hand now? U go to any specialist for treatment?
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Re: burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

Post Number:#5  Postby reen » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:38 pm

whoo lucky...
i was too nearly touch a scorpion fish..tot it was a coral cause i need
to hangon to sumthing ..i was fighting the current..
my fren said if i get stung by the fish...i would have had a major size, over swollen hand..and not to forget
fever...
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Re: burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

Post Number:#6  Postby wilhurricane » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:29 pm

Hey how's the hand now? btw, like your watch.. ;)
Water!!! :)
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Re: burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

Post Number:#7  Postby zaide » Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:24 pm

my hand kinda OK.
Need to find something to get rid of the scar tho.

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Re: burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

Post Number:#8  Postby huisen » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:06 pm

wilhurricane wrote:Hey how's the hand now? btw, like your watch.. ;)


I have the same DC. Hope it's not an omen!!!  :$

Hope it all clears up. I suppose it lets us know how some sea creatures are adept at camouflage.

I heard a story from my girlfriend (also a diver) about her colleague (also a diver) who went diving at Sipadan and their dive group came across a blue ringed octopus. They poked and prodded it not knowing how poisonous it is. Of course, we know we shouldn't disturb anything, poisonous or not....
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Re: burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

Post Number:#9  Postby Nitrogen addict » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:15 am

The main rule underwater, do not touch or poke anything. Just don't......

When you dive, you just entering another world.... so respect to the living creatures and critters

For example I was invited to visit your house and upon entering your house i start poking your child, went to your bedroom and messing it up, checking your fridge... I am sure you don't like that. So its the same thing when u are under water diving. Just enjoy the 40 - 45 minutes the world of silent.

For Zaide case it's just an accident, 

Bro Zaide, try to get vitamin E cream, ask the pharmacist the type that removes scars.. show them your hand and they will give you the advise.  Better get the pro to tell you which cream...


You take care
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Re: burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

Post Number:#10  Postby sheik » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:52 pm

Zaide:
I am sorry to see this.
But I am glad that you have found the cure!
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Re: burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

Post Number:#11  Postby MACHA » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:09 pm

Bro.....dey next time little bit be careful la...lucky it's just a scorpionfish, too focused on the saw blade shrimp ya?
Did sepet attend first aid treatment efficiently?  ;)

Bro..dont forget to waff ( a little waving motion by 2 fingers ) if necessary to make contact / hold on rocks or sandy area.
with these action might help identifying any camouflage critters hiding...take care bro  :)
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Re: burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

Post Number:#12  Postby IkanBilis » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:14 pm

Absence of puncture marks? Hmmm.... Jellyfish would not leave that kind of scar, but rather dots where the cnidae contact with the skin.

I'm thinking hot water and lime on cold skin after dive..  Could it even be burn marks caused by the extreme difference of temperatures?
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Re: burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

Post Number:#13  Postby GiantOtter » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:19 pm

Bro, uncle usin said.. masuk judge chamber..err... that bad arr ?..
jelly gamat might did la bro..
There r 2 ways of doing things, the wrong way and...........
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Re: burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

Post Number:#14  Postby zaide » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:42 pm

MACHA wrote:Bro.....dey next time little bit be careful la...lucky it's just a scorpionfish, too focused on the saw blade shrimp ya?
Did sepet attend first aid treatment efficiently?  ;)

Bro..dont forget to waff ( a little waving motion by 2 fingers ) if necessary to make contact / hold on rocks or sandy area.
with these action might help identifying any camouflage critters hiding...take care bro  :)




Thanks macha ... u r rite abt the "waff". Will do that nx time.
Maybe m too excited wt the saw blade shrimp!

Glad that my buddy sepet is a rescue (this) diver and certified by not a chap ayam Instructor  :D
So, she knows what to do. 

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Re: burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

Post Number:#15  Postby zaide » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:47 pm

IkanBilis wrote:Absence of puncture marks? Hmmm.... Jellyfish would not leave that kind of scar, but rather dots where the cnidae contact with the skin.

I'm thinking hot water and lime on cold skin after dive..  Could it even be burn marks caused by the extreme difference of temperatures?


The water is kinda warm but not that hot enuff to cause the skin to get burn ...  I think.

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Re: burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

Post Number:#16  Postby John F SeaDemon » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:45 pm

Next time don't dive without me. Glad you're okay, bro. I'm nestled in Nong Chik now.
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Re: burn marks on my hand ... what caused it? can it b scorpion fish?

Post Number:#17  Postby ground_inc » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:33 pm

this might be a flesh eating virus... usually carried by certain fish(by reserch mostly red fish).... and this virus effected the victim in the first 5min usually will have back mark, and the following half an hour later abit of flesh will be eaten by the virus and and hour later it will consume half of the effected area if ur hand effected half of it will be eaten by an hour.... but lucky ur hand cured :D
....
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