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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

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DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#1  Postby Hafiz » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:21 pm

My bro and I went diving exactly a week ago. Over 2 days, we managed to get 4 dives. My bro, under a lot of stress lately and he was, let just say, not at the optimum level. 10-12 hours after our last dive, we developed serious headache and joint pain around his fingers on right hand and right knee. The pain was mild. He taught that was because of the volleyball game he played immediately after the dive. However,  he noted that the first 3 dives, he did not do proper safety stop and ascended from bottom relatively quick. The deepest dive was 25m. Don't ask why he did not do the safety stop. Pure silly. As precaution, he was administered with pure O2 at the resort and many hours after that the headache wore off. Life backed to normal and he took the plane back to KL. (he flew back more than 24hrs after last dive)

On Tuesday, he felt numbness on the right side of his body and it continued on and off until today. According to him, there is no pain, just numbness. Now he is worry that he could have got DCS 1. I have his dive profiles but I don't know how to post it. He is quite a healthy person who cycle about 120km a week. He is a bit overweight.

Could he be getting the DCS 1? it has been a week. Thanks
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#2  Postby John F SeaDemon » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:41 pm

Being fit or overweight may have or not have much effect on getting DCS. I am not fit and overweight by a lot and so far, touchwood, luck has been on my side. Conduct of dive, post-dive and pre-dive has a lot to do with getting DCS. It would be a help if you could post the profiles here.

DCS symptoms can occur anytime between almost immediate to sometimes more than a week after a dive. To be safe, take him to the Armed Forces Hospital in Lumut, together with the dive profile, and let the Hyperbaric Medicine practitioners there have a look. Don't go to normal GP clinics please.

Remember, left untreated, it may be permanently damaging or fatal if the victim goes back diving, even with the absence of signs and symptoms.
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#3  Postby Hafiz » Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:28 pm

SD,

Thank you for quick reply.

I read somewhere that we can't just go and knock on the door at Lumut Camp. Is there a procedure that he need to follow? Any number to call? Appreciate your help.
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#4  Postby tulip » Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:44 pm

i think numbers can be found in your logbook.  [-(
err... huh?
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#5  Postby bijan » Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:55 pm

Hafiz, check the website..

http://iuhm.net/hatl/index.html
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#6  Postby DiveMonster » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:40 pm

i think it is the direct result of strainuous exercise after diving (i.e. volleyball),my cousin had a similar experience...Anis,my cousin during one of his OW dive ascended too fast but nothing happened on that day...thinking nothing is wrong he hit the gym once back in KL(he's a very atheletic fella,plays rugby)
3 weeks later he had a stroke,the doctor said bubbles sumhow manage to enter the brain
thankfully he recovered fully
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#7  Postby Hafiz » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:44 pm

Thanks for all the info. He will be meeting Dr Mustafa Kamar Karim of Picis Clinic in KL tomorrow to assess the situation. Apparently, the clinic has the facilities to test and treat DCS. Can anyone confirm this? Has anyone met Dr. Mustafa before? PM me if you have any experience with the clinic.

Thank you. 
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#8  Postby babynemo » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:16 pm

Hafiz, hope your brother will recover from DCS real soon ya.
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#9  Postby bijan » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:42 pm

Hafiz wrote:Thanks for all the info. He will be meeting Dr Mustafa Kamar Karim of Picis Clinic in KL tomorrow to assess the situation. Apparently, the clinic has the facilities to test and treat DCS. Can anyone confirm this? Has anyone met Dr. Mustafa before? PM me if you have any experience with the clinic.

Thank you. 


They have their own pressurised chamber?
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#10  Postby John F SeaDemon » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:31 pm

Per session is about RM360. So a treatment of 6 sessions...multiply la.
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#11  Postby Scorpenesub » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:02 am

Hi Hafiz,

Keep us posted on what happens after visiting Dr Mustafa Kamar Karim of Picis Clinic in KL. Thanks. Hope your bother get well soon.
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#12  Postby Ery » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:59 am

please keep us posted and thanks for sharing.  :glasses9:
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#13  Postby MT_Tanc » Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:00 am

dun 4get to tell dr mustapha to join us at muw
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#14  Postby Ery » Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:05 am

empty_tank wrote:dun 4get to tell dr mustapha to join us at muw


yeah yeah...good idea. Get him to enroll on OW and join MUW at the same time  :laughing11:
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#15  Postby Hafiz » Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:34 am

Once again, thxs a bunch to the well wishers. I will keep y'all posted once he is done with his visit. Bijan, I was told that the Picis Clinic have its own HB chamber. I was looking at his dive profile last nite, on one of his dive he shoot up from 20m to surface in about a minute. Correct me if I am wrong but I think lady luck was on his side then.

Anyway, bro. I wish you well (I know he read this forum quite regularly - pls register, told you this forum is good)
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#16  Postby bijan » Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:59 am

Do update us on the progress of your brother, if possible, do post pictures or report on his treatment, if u feel like it lar..hhehehe..

20m to surface in a minute? with no safety stop? my thots wud be he fins up all the way from 20m..very dangerous..next time, he can try to practice multi-safety stops..lets say, 15 meter 1 minute, 12 meter 1 minute, 9 meter 1 minute, 5 meter 3 minutes..it will give more time for the nitrogen to desaturate from your body..oh, and try to be horizontal when performing ur safety stops..

if i'm wrong, please correct me
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#17  Postby Hafiz » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:14 pm

Some update.

The clinic apparently was equipped with HB chamber and most of their patients are suffering from CP and ulcer. My bro was treated with US Navy Table 5 treatment i.e in the chamber for 2hrs 15min.They rarely treat diver. The HB chamber is big enough for two people. I was told that all medical technicians (Aji and Zul) were trained in Lumut under Kol Lee. They know what they were doing. Dr Mustafa readily admit that he rarely treat diver and he said that he will refer my bro to lumut if the symtoms persisted after the initial treatment. The chamber maximum pressure is 20M.

they first 'desend' to 18M. He then given 20min of pure O2. 5 min air. 20min O2. 5 min air. Pressure then reduced to 9M. Treated with 30m O2. 5min air. 20min O2. 5min air. 20min O2. 5min air and pressure back to ambient. There was a technician in the chamber with my bro at all time and someone outside monitoring the progress. My bro already emailed the photo of the facilities and I will post it when I know how to do it.

he said the numbness disappeared but that could be placebo effect. [-(.
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#18  Postby Scorpenesub » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:20 pm

Hi Hafiz,

So glad to hear your brother's numbness has disappeared after treatment. That's probably a good sign. Don't worry, Hafiz.
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#19  Postby babyFin » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:24 pm

scorpenesub wrote:Hi Hafiz,

So glad to hear your brother's numbness has disappeared after treatment. That's probably a good sign. Don't worry, Hafiz.


Thanx for sharing ur concern.. :glasses2:
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#20  Postby bijan » Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:37 am

Thanks for the update Hafiz..btw, how much does the treatment cost u?

U can refer on the instructions to upload photos HERE
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#21  Postby orcastyl » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:43 am

Pretty unusual for DCS to carry on beyond 3 weeks. Firstly, its all about nitrogen gases in the bloodstream. Hence by now it should have cleared up. If it would have stayed so long, i don't think it is just merely numbness over the limbs. He would have had a major pulmonary embolism or even an ischaemia of the brain i.e. stroke. 

It may as well just be a coincidental symptom and since he just recently had a 'scare' of DCS, one is prone to relate this as cause and effect.

Nevertheless it is definitely a good idea to have a proper check up. And preferable not the GP as Seadaemon has pointed out.

;)  (just a thought)
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#22  Postby DiveMonster » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:17 am

orcastyl wrote:Pretty unusual for DCS to carry on beyond 3 weeks. Firstly, its all about nitrogen gases in the bloodstream. Hence by now it should have cleared up. If it would have stayed so long, i don't think it is just merely numbness over the limbs. He would have had a major pulmonary embolism or even an ischaemia of the brain i.e. stroke. 

It may as well just be a coincidental symptom and since he just recently had a 'scare' of DCS, one is prone to relate this as cause and effect.

Nevertheless it is definitely a good idea to have a proper check up. And preferable not the GP as Seadaemon has pointed out.

;)  (just a thought)


nope it was definitely DCS...i too thought it was strange for it to surface after 3 weeks,

my cousin has a special condition(he has a hole in his heart) which led to cutaneous embolism(type 1 DCS aka skin bends,he had the whole rashes thing) due to quick tissue loading frm the hole(which probably accelerated frm the fast ascent)...since the gasses didnt come frm the arteries,off-gassing takes a different rate

once he hit the gym,the raised blood pressure encouraged bubble movement frm the venous side to the arterial side which led to the cerebral embolism(type 2 DCS i.e. stroke) its sumthing like pulmonary embolism(also type 2 DCS aka the chokes) but instead of effecting the circulatory system it went to the brain

im making a case study for him n cross-referenced his symptoms with some physiology books(a few related to diving) bcoz he wants to start diving again...n i want to help him so i needed to noe what happen to him the first time so i can prepare for him next time coz he'll b doing his refresher course under me(hopefully anywayz,we still need to convince his mom)

n dont bother asking who was his instructor to let him dive with his condition or the doctor who approved of his certificate of fitness to go diving coz i hav no idea but what i do noe is dat after the accident he went all the way to lumut to the hyperbaric treatment centre there and came back wit a bill saying his fit as anyone to go diving frm a certified physician n i wont stop any man to pursue his dream of diving,heck i encourage it

i just didnt want to bother wit the details b4 coz then i'd hav to give my oh so righteous speech(such as this,lol) coz i hate being known as a braggart

fyi...did u noe that the longest time ever recorded for DCS to occur is 36 hours(man,im could win the noble prize with this case study heheh)but he had a few symptoms b4 the stroke so im not sure it counts...the funny thing though is that he said he didnt felt any pain wen the symptoms occured thats why he disregarded it the first time,either he's lying or he has a high threshold towards pain i dunno
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#23  Postby Hafiz » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:32 pm

Bijan -  the treatment cost RM380/hour. He did 2hr 15m but they charge him for 2 hrs. Thxs for the link on how to load the photo. The photo is at my other computer. I will load it tomorrow

I think some of you confused. It happen a week ago to my bro not 3 weeks. He developed h/ache and join pain in less than 24hrs and numbness after 48hrs. the symptoms persisted and numbness disappeared after the treatment. He said the join pain still there but not bad at all. He will go for another treatment tomorrow or tuesday.

Question to all. He book for Sipadan trip on November 12. Is it too soon for him to go giving? Thank you again.
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#24  Postby bijan » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:38 pm

Pls make an appointment with a certified diving medical doctor(HAT lumut) and let them clear ur brother whether he is fit or not to dive..

all we'll be giving are just opinions..get professsionals opinions to confirm..
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#25  Postby Hafiz » Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:48 pm

TQ bijan. I am sure he will do just that.

BTW, attached is link to the PICIS clinic. http://www.hyperbaricoxygen.com.my
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#26  Postby MACHA » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:21 pm

Dey gud to know your Bro is ok....we were talking about DCS signs & symptoms that night.....kabbbaaaam!
Just for references you can call Lumut Naval Base  oso DAN rep. ;)refer Dr.Halim Mohd. 0127070765
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#27  Postby Cripple Diver » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:43 pm

Hafiz & the rest of the posters.

Thanks for the heads up & pointers.As humans we have different threshold for pain & sickness.Personally, am grateful to learn from this website & hope to get best practises & precautions to avoid the medical complications arising from diving.
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#28  Postby John F SeaDemon » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:09 pm

MACHA wrote:Dey gud to know your Bro is ok....we were talking about DCS signs & symptoms that night.....kabbbaaaam!
Just for references you can call Lumut Naval Base  oso DAN rep. ;)refer Dr.Halim Mohd. 0127070765


Hello, bro. Dr Halim is now in Miri somewhere. Hehehe. Now it's Mej Dr Yusof.
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#29  Postby MACHA » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:17 pm

wokay.......need updates la, thanx
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Re: DCS.. Maybe?

Post Number:#30  Postby Hafiz » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:29 pm

managed to get the photo. He is B&W shooter. So almost all of his photos are in B&W except underwater.

Image

The chamber is big enough for two people laying down or 4 people in sitting position.
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