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Buddy System

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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#31  Postby babyFin » Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:09 am

SeaDemon wrote:Nowadays, you see divers with octopus but dive alone, learn how to use the RDP but never use, have pressure gauge but never check.

So how la?


i havent got the chance to see any diver went down all by himself / herself. atleast in a group of three buddy-ing.. but yes, i do have found a diver without octo..but still got a buddy.  ;) never check pressure gauge???? sure or not? i think eventhough u didnt see anybody check on their gauge, who knows - u didnt notice he / she was checking his / her gauge in a glance..or atleast have a peep on it. and that is why too, the guide / DM have to remind and check the diver's air.. as for myself - since my first dive - my guide will sure turn back to me and ask my balance air..but, if the DM is so use to dive with me, he / she seldomly will ask due to they know my air consumption oledi.. still, i do check mine after 60mins for every 10mins..5mins..
:angel8: :angel8: :angel8:
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#32  Postby babyFin » Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:13 am

SeaDemon wrote:I'm just being the as*h*** in here pricking up people's brains because I see in some trips, safety has gone down the drains. Plans are even being made to go where some divers shouldn't even venture to.

So where did these divers learn diving from?

So how la?


its good then if u say so, atleast u r testing us here in MUW..and in the same time can refresh thingsss..!!!  ;) if ever u saw any 'unsafe' scene..u have the whole right to tell them "NO"..thats not it suppose to be.. and u can lead them to do the correct thing wat.. instead of laughing and mumbling on his / her back, one should point it out before things become TOO LATE..  B-)
:angel8: :angel8: :angel8:
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#33  Postby John F SeaDemon » Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:32 am

babyFiN wrote:
SeaDemon wrote:Nowadays, you see divers with octopus but dive alone, learn how to use the RDP but never use, have pressure gauge but never check.

So how la?


i havent got the chance to see any diver went down all by himself / herself. atleast in a group of three buddy-ing.. but yes, i do have found a diver without octo..but still got a buddy.  ;) never check pressure gauge???? sure or not? i think eventhough u didnt see anybody check on their gauge, who knows - u didnt notice he / she was checking his / her gauge in a glance..or atleast have a peep on it. and that is why too, the guide / DM have to remind and check the diver's air.. as for myself - since my first dive - my guide will sure turn back to me and ask my balance air..but, if the DM is so use to dive with me, he / she seldomly will ask due to they know my air consumption oledi.. still, i do check mine after 60mins for every 10mins..5mins..
:angel8: :angel8: :angel8:


See...again you are talking about diving with a DM/Dive Guide.

You are a licensed diver...licensed to plan your dive and dive your plan with a qualified buddy. Most of the time people do not check and fumble when asked to check their air. They struggle for their pressure gauge when asked.

Check your air earlier...don't wait for an hour. There may be a leak you and your buddy might think as exhaled air.  I check my air, as well as of my buddy's the first two ten minutes and then make a mental calculation on how much air each should have on the subsequent ten minutes.  If the numbers correspond, then I'd know when to end the dive, and if there is an emergency, I'd know how long my buddy and/or I can last.
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#34  Postby scottycam » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:29 am

as a good practise, i always hold my gauge in my left hand  and fold my arms when diving and  constantly monitor my gauges, also at same time  i prevent it from scraping the sea bed or corals...most of us may know that the gauge may sometimes get snagged on corals and break them....
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#35  Postby Ery » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:51 am

very healthy discussion. i likeeeeee  ;)
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#36  Postby babyFin » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:29 pm

SeaDemon wrote:No pressure gauge, just a depth gauge. The only way for you to know that you have no more air is when it actually runs out of air, then you yank on the lever to give you just enough air to surface from whatever depth you're at (I ran out of air at 21m) and the only other person who was diving was diving somewhere else.


see SD, how wonderful it is - if u were wit ur buddy that very moment..  ;) as i said, u wont know wat gonna happen. its all unpredictable scene.. we as human only can plan, but sometime u oso need plan B instead.
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#37  Postby babyFin » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:33 pm

scottycam wrote:as a good practise, i always hold my gauge in my left hand  and fold my arms when diving and  constantly monitor my gauges, also at same time  i prevent it from scraping the sea bed or corals...most of us may know that the gauge may sometimes get snagged on corals and break them....


and mine i put it in the pocket of my BCD since assemble till i finish the dive.. purpose is same, to prevent from scraping, snagged and breaking the corals..plus more, i don wan my gauge to get scrath oso maa.. i love my gears so strong! hehehee..  :D
:angel8: :angel8: :angel8:
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#38  Postby Ery » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:29 pm

I recommend everybody to watch "Umizaru" (Japs Movie). :glasses9:
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#39  Postby John F SeaDemon » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:19 pm

babyFiN wrote:
SeaDemon wrote:No pressure gauge, just a depth gauge. The only way for you to know that you have no more air is when it actually runs out of air, then you yank on the lever to give you just enough air to surface from whatever depth you're at (I ran out of air at 21m) and the only other person who was diving was diving somewhere else.


see SD, how wonderful it is - if u were wit ur buddy that very moment..  ;) as i said, u wont know wat gonna happen. its all unpredictable scene.. we as human only can plan, but sometime u oso need plan B instead.
:angel8: :angel8: :angel8:


And you are forgetting the fact that that was back in 1982.

Then again, if you remember your lessons in diving, from 21 meters, if you have not gone past your NDL, you can surface without a safety stop.

Do you remember that?
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#40  Postby HoleMaster » Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:59 pm

Ive extracted of what i posted earlier on a different thread. Its about the buddy system. Pls read as this is really IMPORTANT for DIVING SAFETY:
For recreational diving certification ONLY allows u to dive with a buddy. There a lot of reason to it why u need a buddy, main reason is SAFETY:

Excerpt from Wikipedia:
Buddy diving is a set of safety procedures that improve divers' chances of avoiding or surviving accidents in or underwater by diving in a group of two or three divers.

When using the buddy system, the group dives together and co-operate with each other, so that they can help or rescue each other in the event of an emergency.

A pair of divers is the best combination in buddy diving; with threesomes, one of the divers can easily lose the attention of the other two. Groups with more than three divers are not using the buddy system. The system is likely to be effective in mitigating out-of-air emergencies, non-diving medical emergencies and entrapment in ropes or nets.

When used with the buddy check it can help avoid the omission, misuse and failure of diving equipment.

With buddy diving, each of the divers is presumed to have a responsibility to the other. The "buddies" are expected to monitor each other, to stay close enough together to be able to help in an emergency, to behave safely and to follow the plan agreed by the group before the dive. When the system fails, it is generally because one of the divers does not fulfil his or her responsibilities as a buddy.


Alternatives:
The two alternatives, solo diving and diving as an individual in a large group, have disadvantages when compared to the buddy system especially for the novice:

Although solo diving is practiced by some divers in technical diving, it is only effective if the diver is totally self-sufficient. This usually entails a completely redundant gas supply, such as a pony bottle or an isolation manifold. Self-rescue is not possible in some cases, such as entrapment in ropes and nets and during non-diving medical emergencies.

In group diving, especially in large groups, poor visibility or currents, weak or inexperienced individual divers can easily become detached from the group and lose the protection of stronger or experienced divers in the group. This is referred to as "resort-diver syndrome".
Last edited by HoleMaster on Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#41  Postby babyFin » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:25 pm

SeaDemon wrote:And you are forgetting the fact that that was back in 1982.

Then again, if you remember your lessons in diving, from 21 meters, if you have not gone past your NDL, you can surface without a safety stop.

Do you remember that?


yes..but im comparing 1982 and 2007, with buddy and alone. the things is, just imagine, if the buddy system was implemented way long ago, u should not be facing those troubles and i think u are so use to the buddy system oledi maa..if u apply all that, u wont be doing those things against the rules of being safe.. and maybe myself are so into it, bc i dive after all the buddy system around, BCD..and everything la. and i obey wat i have learned.

p/s: SD, take good care of urself..theres people still need u out there.. be safe. play safe. dive safe.

:angel8: :angel8: :angel8:
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#42  Postby John F SeaDemon » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:33 pm

babyFiN wrote:
SeaDemon wrote:And you are forgetting the fact that that was back in 1982.

Then again, if you remember your lessons in diving, from 21 meters, if you have not gone past your NDL, you can surface without a safety stop.

Do you remember that?


yes..but im comparing 1982 and 2007, with buddy and alone. the things is, just imagine, if the buddy system was implemented way long ago, u should not be facing those troubles and i think u are so use to the buddy system oledi maa..if u apply all that, u wont be doing those things against the rules of being safe.. and maybe myself are so into it, bc i dive after all the buddy system around, BCD..and everything la. and i obey wat i have learned.

p/s: SD, take good care of urself..theres people still need u out there.. be safe. play safe. dive safe.

:angel8: :angel8: :angel8:


Thank you, Babyfin. I will. But I have also been trained as a self-sufficient diver. The last thing I want to do is trouble people down there.
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#43  Postby Ery » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:42 pm

If i may add up more with reference to the topic, below are simple guidelines for a trouble free buddyship that i gained through my own research and studies, which I would like to share with everyone.

1. Define a Comfort Zone. Max depth, time, activity level and water conditions should be within the comfort zone of the lesser on the divers, even though a more experienced of fit buddy may be restricted by them.

2. Select Compatible Activities. Planned buddy activities do not need to be identical, but they should be complimentary. Sightseeing or photography go well together, close up photography and spear fishing do not.

3. Build Cooperation. Avoid the leader-follower syndrome. Share responsibilities and duties so that each diver can take on aspects of both leader and follower

4. Plan Together. Every dive plan should include the dive’s purpose and activities, direction and route, cutoffs for depth, time, air consumption, and how to change the plan.

5. Limit the group. Buddy groups can include up to four divers, no more. Threesomes, foursomes are safe and effective if each buddy fulfills his/her responsibilities to the others.

6. Check and Double Check. In addition to pre-dive buddy checks, you should also share your experiences after diving and observe each other for difficulties.

7. Learn to communicate. Regardless of what form of underwater communication you use, hand signals, slates, underwater voice units, the key is to agree beforehand which you will use and how.

8. Stay Together. The keys to staying together are to dive side by side, stay on the same side as much as possible, head in an agreed upon direction and stay aware of each other.

9. Monitor Air Consumption. No two divers use air at exactly the same rate. End the dive based on the air supply of the person with the least air.

Basic, Simple but Effective!!! We may lacking of doing all these, but as one big family It is suggested that we keep on reminding each other on the above said so that we could minimize the risks in every activities down underwater. Last but not least, I hope everyone should taking notes on this and lets dive through education.

I'm nobody but I am your buddy. Cheers all!  :smileinbox: :smileinbox: :smileinbox:
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#44  Postby John F SeaDemon » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:53 pm

ery wrote:
If i may add up more with reference to the topic, below are simple guidelines for a trouble free buddyship that i gained through my own research and studies, which I would like to share with everyone.

1. Define a Comfort Zone. Max depth, time, activity level and water conditions should be within the comfort zone of the lesser on the divers, even though a more experienced of fit buddy may be restricted by them.

2. Select Compatible Activities. Planned buddy activities do not need to be identical, but they should be complimentary. Sightseeing or photography go well together, close up photography and spear fishing do not.

3. Build Cooperation. Avoid the leader-follower syndrome. Share responsibilities and duties so that each diver can take on aspects of both leader and follower

4. Plan Together. Every dive plan should include the dive’s purpose and activities, direction and route, cutoffs for depth, time, air consumption, and how to change the plan.

5[glow=red,2,300]. Limit the group. Buddy groups can include up to four divers, no more. Threesomes, foursomes are safe and effective if each buddy fulfills his/her responsibilities to the others.[/glow]
6. Check and Double Check. In addition to pre-dive buddy checks, you should also share your experiences after diving and observe each other for difficulties.

7. Learn to communicate. Regardless of what form of underwater communication you use, hand signals, slates, underwater voice units, the key is to agree beforehand which you will use and how.

8. Stay Together. The keys to staying together are to dive side by side, stay on the same side as much as possible, head in an agreed upon direction and stay aware of each other.

9. Monitor Air Consumption. No two divers use air at exactly the same rate. End the dive based on the air supply of the person with the least air.

Basic, Simple but Effective!!! We may lacking of doing all these, but as one big family It is suggested that we keep on reminding each other on the above said so that we could minimize the risks in every activities down underwater. Last but not least, I hope everyone should taking notes on this and lets dive through education.

I'm nobody but I am your buddy. Cheers all!  :smileinbox: :smileinbox: :smileinbox:


Sounds like a cut and paste job but thank you. But I disagree with the "glowed" point. You CANNOT have more than one buddy. Someone must have the sole responsibility of checking on you.  Not three or four people at the same time.
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#45  Postby Ery » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:01 pm

SeaDemon wrote:
ery wrote:
If i may add up more with reference to the topic, below are simple guidelines for a trouble free buddyship that i gained through my own research and studies, which I would like to share with everyone.

1. Define a Comfort Zone. Max depth, time, activity level and water conditions should be within the comfort zone of the lesser on the divers, even though a more experienced of fit buddy may be restricted by them.

2. Select Compatible Activities. Planned buddy activities do not need to be identical, but they should be complimentary. Sightseeing or photography go well together, close up photography and spear fishing do not.

3. Build Cooperation. Avoid the leader-follower syndrome. Share responsibilities and duties so that each diver can take on aspects of both leader and follower

4. Plan Together. Every dive plan should include the dive’s purpose and activities, direction and route, cutoffs for depth, time, air consumption, and how to change the plan.

5[glow=red,2,300]. Limit the group. Buddy groups can include up to four divers, no more. Threesomes, foursomes are safe and effective if each buddy fulfills his/her responsibilities to the others.[/glow]
  [glow=yellow,2,300]Correction: Buddy should'nt be more than one person. (Thanks Seademon for highlighting this)[/glow]
6. Check and Double Check. In addition to pre-dive buddy checks, you should also share your experiences after diving and observe each other for difficulties.

7. Learn to communicate. Regardless of what form of underwater communication you use, hand signals, slates, underwater voice units, the key is to agree beforehand which you will use and how.

8. Stay Together. The keys to staying together are to dive side by side, stay on the same side as much as possible, head in an agreed upon direction and stay aware of each other.

9. Monitor Air Consumption. No two divers use air at exactly the same rate. End the dive based on the air supply of the person with the least air.

Basic, Simple but Effective!!! We may lacking of doing all these, but as one big family It is suggested that we keep on reminding each other on the above said so that we could minimize the risks in every activities down underwater. Last but not least, I hope everyone should taking notes on this and lets dive through education.

I'm nobody but I am your buddy. Cheers all!  :smileinbox: :smileinbox: :smileinbox:


Sounds like a cut and paste job but thank you. But I disagree with the "glowed" point. You CANNOT have more than one buddy. Someone must have the sole responsibility of checking on you.  Not three or four people at the same time.


You have got a point there GURU!  ;)
Those were the research I took from "Tod Welle". He might be wrong and so do us.

At least having the courtesy to do the research and share with others would be good,
instead of condemning others. Cheers!  :smileinbox:
Last edited by Ery on Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#46  Postby John F SeaDemon » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:08 pm

Well, we can just f*** it can't we? Cheers.
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#47  Postby Ery » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:19 pm

SeaDemon wrote:Well, we can just f*** it can't we? Cheers.


cheers bro!  ;)
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#48  Postby babyFin » Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:02 pm

btw SD, if u have dive since 1982.. [diving experience itself oledi about my age :notworthy: ].. should u have to be the example or oso known as - role model maa.. bring out for us the newbie divers..  ;) i can bet, u have logged thousandssss of dives. there must be plenty of good / bad experiences and for sure u have learn some lesson from ur own mistakes or others - u dive with before.. here why dont u show, lead, coach, teach, remind us about it..so that we can put our best to avoid from such scenario..
eventhough one think that he / she do not need others, trust me.. lots of people out there still need u.

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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#49  Postby Da'a » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:02 pm

help..help..pening already.
[-(
I don't have fancy words to put here like yours. :)
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#50  Postby Ery » Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:27 am

MOD, I think it's time to lock this topic. Thanks in advance, cheers all!
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#51  Postby Snafu » Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:33 am

Ery,

You been doing a great job bro ... I am learning a lot about buddy system from your write-up.

There are always room for improvement in diving & making it safer for all.

It boils down to us as divers & to know our limits ...to push our limit higher by continuing our diving education & do the dives.

I am use to dive on my own(alone) & I do my very best to keep a look out for divers around me.

Thanks for the guideline.

:D
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#52  Postby HoleMaster » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:15 am

Okaylah...it has been a lengthy and healthy discussion on buddy system. As such im locking the thread. Cheers! :icon_rr:
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