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Buddy System

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Buddy System

Post Number:#1  Postby Ery » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:58 am

There seem to be several categories of dive buddy. See where you find yourself and see where you would like to be. One of the categories is the: Just met the person on the dive boat and the Divemaster paired us up. I have a real problem with this deal. Not only don’t you know anything about the person’s skill level and abilities, but you don’t have any signals worked out, you don’t have a clue when the last time they REALY did a dive like the one you are just about to do. This situation sometimes sets me to wondering, what was the condition of their last buddy after their last dive. Hum?

Dive operators just have to hook you up with somebody. They cannot let you dive alone and this, I feel has problems. One way to solve this might be diplomatically suggest that you and the Divemaster and the mystery guest dive as a group of three. Be proactive, scope out ahead of time who at least appears to be good fit as a buddy for that dive. Exchange a few words and see what your comfort level with them is. Another way is to duck and hide when they are grouping people. Size up the deal and move fast or else you’re in for it.

To some degree, you will always have to dive someone else’s dive. It depends on a lot of things but you will wind up with their profile or vice versa. All this by the way, is assuming that the person you are paired with is cooperative. THEY may be the one insisting on exceeding you’re comfort or training levels. Bad, bad, bad, never allow yourself to be bullied. This is one of the many plusses to diving in a forum like ours. We know each other, in and out of the water. We have confidence in one another if not from association, from observation. The worst case is that you pair up with someone new to you that day, Take the time to sort things out before the dive. New friend made, done deal, everybody’s happy.

Now for something a bit more sensitive: I feel it is dangerous to let your dive partner become to dependant on you. Equally dangerous is becoming dependant on you partner. You are not being kind, nor are you showing love and care, if you do not allow your dive buddy to be completely self sufficient. Correction, INSIST that they become self sufficient. The best rescue is a self rescue. It is possible that through habit and experience, one or the other becomes stronger or more self confident, leaving the other even more dependent. Granted, this applies mostly to those who dive as a team most often, but also applies to someone you are temporarily diving with. It is better for them; they will become more confident and therefore more relaxed, and better for you, as they will be better able to assist you if needed.

Both members of the team MUST be able to navigate, monitor air and bottom time, and send and receive signals either by hand, slate, or other means. They HAVE GOT TO be familiar with your alternate air and vice versa. (A little tip for watching you air pressure, gauges: If you normally dive with the same person, you normally dive in the same relative position to them: He or she on the right or left slightly ahead or behind, whatever. Try positioning you console in such a way that when you are not checking your own levels, it rests tilted slightly towards your buddy. In this way you can check at a glance each others remaining air. You will find that with a little trial and error, it is easy to spot the green, yellow and red bands and the black needle from some distance)
If you are using an AIR2, or anything other than the standard octo set up, you need to point this out. Some divers don’t know how it works. Always have your secondary reg identified with a yellow hose or wrap.

Exchange rolls from time to time. Let your buddy lead. Allow them to decide the profile, direction, etc. Allow them to navigate. Allow them to set the pace. Allow them to learn by making mistakes! Not life threatening of course.
If you are the member of the team that usually follows, take the initiative, speak up, and make it known that you would like to lead the dive. If your buddy is not willing, find another one (Or talk it through later prior to divorce court). You both benefit. Cheers!  ;) ;) ;)
Last edited by Ery on Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#2  Postby Adzri » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:07 am

Ery well said ... thanks for the excellent write up .
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#3  Postby Ery » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:35 am

adik wrote:Ery well said ... thanks for the excellent write up .




Nothing great bout it bro, just a little experience to share with...  :smileinbox:
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#4  Postby Scorpenesub » Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:11 am

Bonjour ery,

Good answer to another post somewhere in the forum. Perhaps the moderators could merge it. Thanks for sharing your experience, ery. Merci
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#5  Postby Ery » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:14 am

scorpenesub wrote:Bonjour ery,

Good answer to another post somewhere in the forum. Perhaps the moderators could merge it. Thanks for sharing your experience, ery. Merci




no worries bro, cheers  :glasses9:
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#6  Postby babyFin » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:39 am

ery wrote:There seem to be several categories of dive buddy. See where you find yourself and see where you would like to be. One of the categories is the: Just met the person on the dive boat and the Divemaster paired us up. I have a real problem with this deal. Not only don’t you know anything about the person’s skill level and abilities, but you don’t have any signals worked out, you don’t have a clue when the last time they REALY did a dive like the one you are just about to do. This situation sometimes sets me to wondering, what was the condition of their last buddy after their last dive. Hum?


i faced this most of the time since i always went for diving alone..hmm if i faced this, i will lead her / him and try to share wat i have.. being as humble is how i behave before i dive and buddy-ing somebody new.. i will tell that, he / she have to look after me  ;) but if upon entry, i observe he or she is not as comfortable underwater as i predict earlier, i will sure be more alert on her / him.. for me, i just have in mind - in order to be a diver wit good behavior or moving towards proffesional, i have to show good example by not neglecting him / her regardless who is my buddy.. theres the challenge u know..
:angel8: :angel8: :angel8:
Last edited by babyFin on Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#7  Postby HoleMaster » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:48 am

Wow excellent report la bro....u sound like an instructor oledi...good mindset :icon_rr:
Rilek la bai...agak2 la diving. Kang tersekat kat lubang susah plak
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#8  Postby babyFin » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:48 am

ery wrote:Exchange rolls from time to time. Let your buddy lead. Allow them to decide the profile, direction, etc. Allow them to navigate. Allow them to set the pace. Allow them to learn by making mistakes! Not life threatening of course.
If you are the member of the team that usually follows, take the initiative, speak up, and make it known that you would like to lead the dive. If your buddy is not willing, find another one (Or talk it through later prior to divorce court). You both benefit. Cheers!  ;) ;) ;)


still u have to wait for the next dive not-to-buddy him / her..  :D or just make urself slightly a bit far from wat u usually practise wit ur favorite 'good buddy'. and yet, have to peep on him / her every once in a while to make sure he / she is still ok.. and get close to him / her if u see that he / she seems like not very the comfortable.. a glance is wat u need, u can know oledi.. if me, the next dive i will still stick wit the same buddy, only will switch the day after.. have to think about their feelings too tho.  :D :D
:angel8: :angel8: :angel8:
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#9  Postby Ery » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:45 am

HoleMaster wrote:Wow excellent report la bro....u sound like an instructor oledi...good mindset :icon_rr:


One need not to become an instructor to know all these.
What we need to do like you have always says... ;)
STOP, THINK and ACT
It just a basic knowledge.

cheers,

ur wingman
Last edited by Ery on Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#10  Postby Ery » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:47 am

babyFiN wrote:
ery wrote:Exchange rolls from time to time. Let your buddy lead. Allow them to decide the profile, direction, etc. Allow them to navigate. Allow them to set the pace. Allow them to learn by making mistakes! Not life threatening of course.
If you are the member of the team that usually follows, take the initiative, speak up, and make it known that you would like to lead the dive. If your buddy is not willing, find another one (Or talk it through later prior to divorce court). You both benefit. Cheers!  ;) ;) ;)


still u have to wait for the next dive not-to-buddy him / her..  :D or just make urself slightly a bit far from wat u usually practise wit ur favorite 'good buddy'. and yet, have to peep on him / her every once in a while to make sure he / she is still ok.. and get close to him / her if u see that he / she seems like not very the comfortable.. a glance is wat u need, u can know oledi.. if me, the next dive i will still stick wit the same buddy, only will switch the day after.. have to think about their feelings too tho.   :D :D
:angel8: :angel8: :angel8:


very good buddy you are...  ;)
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#11  Postby Da'a » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:04 pm

Wow! like a text book ery..long but informative. i read it all the way *swear.  :glasses2:
I don't have fancy words to put here like yours. :)
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#12  Postby zani » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:06 pm

Good one!! :icon_thumleft:Great write up bro! Thanks!
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#13  Postby Ery » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:26 pm

thanks guys. Pls do not hesitate to upload your inputs on the above topic. It's good to share on our knowledge and experiences. cheers!  :angel8:
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#14  Postby John F SeaDemon » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:35 pm

Why f*** around and waste time? Just get into the water, see anyone that's free, just buddy with the person la!
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#15  Postby Ery » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:55 pm

SeaDemon wrote:Why f*** around and waste time? Just get into the water, see anyone that's free, just buddy with the person la!


plan your dive, dive ur plan.  ;)
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#16  Postby John F SeaDemon » Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:07 pm

ery wrote:
SeaDemon wrote:Why f*** around and waste time? Just get into the water, see anyone that's free, just buddy with the person la!


plan your dive, dive ur plan.  ;)


Tell me how many f***ers actually do that? All they do is look blank-faced at the dive guide muttering some things about some dive site, then they go dive.
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#17  Postby Ery » Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:39 pm

SeaDemon wrote:
ery wrote:
SeaDemon wrote:Why f*** around and waste time? Just get into the water, see anyone that's free, just buddy with the person la!


plan your dive, dive ur plan.  ;)


Tell me how many f***ers actually do that? All they do is look blank-faced at the dive guide muttering some things about some dive site, then they go dive.


Lets be positive bro, I know you are very right. But dont you think that all of us need to overcome our weaknesses by reminding and advising each others especially when it involves high risks activities. I believe MUW as one of the best platform to educate and to learn from others. Hopefully everyone could gain some benefits out of it. We never know, we might one day encounter the real situation at down under and that's when it become useful. Suffice said.
cheers!  :glasses9: 



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Last edited by Ery on Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#18  Postby John F SeaDemon » Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:44 pm

I am being positive. Otherwise I'd just f*** all and not care.

We talk about safety etc etc etc until the cows come home.

And what do we practise in reality?

ZIP! NOTHING! We dive beyond our certification's limitations, we have all fun fun fun..until someone surfaces face down, or in strong currents, or swept away.

Cows come and go...

BULLSH*T stays forever.
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#19  Postby Atuk » Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:56 pm

goes both ways la...

if you stare blankly at the DM, they'll assume you need to be hand held and told...
if you say your piece, ask questions, they know you know and will respect your independence.
like what i've said previously, you pay good money to be trained and certified... you yourself should respect that and take a major portion of the responsibility...

on dive trips, again you pay good money to dive... if you want to endanger yourselves, your buddies and DMs etc can only advise you so much but in the end it's your a**.  We're certified divers, if you want to be treated like one, act like one!
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#20  Postby Mephisto the Heretic » Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:04 pm

SeaDemon wrote:I am being positive. Otherwise I'd just f*** all and not care.

We talk about safety etc etc etc until the cows come home.

And what do we practise in reality?

ZIP! NOTHING! We dive beyond our certification's limitations, we have all fun fun fun..until someone surfaces face down, or in strong currents, or swept away.

Cows come and go...

BULLSH*T stays forever.



i use to think like you....and till now..i still agree with you....but now i see divers do take buddy system seriously..although not up to the standard yet...but there is safety awareness...its not their fault, they are humans, they make mistake from time to time and so do we....we must educate them and also remind our self not to slack....

yes, some times the fun factors in divers do override the safety considerations.....then its our job to remind them....its not nice job...but somebody has to do it...

reminds  me of the IMCA safety motto in Shell Safety Trainning videos...'If it is not safe, stop work!'
BE FAITHFUL! BE STRONG! BE VIGILANT!
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#21  Postby Da'a » Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:13 pm

mephisto,

to add "YOU and I MUST COMPLY!"
I don't have fancy words to put here like yours. :)
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#22  Postby Mephisto the Heretic » Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:40 pm

talk2daa wrote:mephisto,

to add "YOU and I MUST COMPLY!"


heh..got kaa? did not notice....ok....YOU and I MUST COMPLY!!!
BE FAITHFUL! BE STRONG! BE VIGILANT!
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#23  Postby IkanBilis » Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:03 pm

Very sad, my buddy is away in Miri now... Anyhow, thanks for a good insight Ery. I for one, wouldn't like to left diving alone with no buddy. It would be good to have an understanding buddy, who share the same concerns for safety as you do. If it happens that my buddy is the kind "tangkap-muat" (anyone would do) arranged by the DM, I think I would want to talk and get to know my buddy first. As a matter of courtesy, I would oblige my buddy's lead, at least for the first dive. If I find that he/she is more experienced, or can be a good lead, I would let him/her lead in the subsequent dives.

That's my 2 kPa worth...
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#24  Postby Ery » Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:04 pm

mephisto wrote:
yes, some times the fun factors in divers do override the safety considerations.....then its our job to remind them....its not nice job...but somebody has to do it...


Well said.

it's like a blind man  :glasses9:  crossing a road uncertainty, while people passing by without handing an assistance to him.
What would you do?


and your answer to that question will shows what kind of person you are.  ;)
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#25  Postby putradiver » Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:59 pm

Discipline is the key word here.  This is not just a normal recreation sport.  Diving involve safety n life but if you don't follow the rules and be discipline in following the rules and standards then you shouldn't be as a DIVER. 

PLAN YOUR DIVE N DIVE YOUR PLAN.....  DISCIPLINE YOURSELF TO STICK TO WHAT YOU HAD PLANNED.

BUDDY IS BUDDY AND STICK TO WITHIN REACH OF YOUR BUDDY...  ;)
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#26  Postby John F SeaDemon » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:17 am

What la talk about discipline?

It's recreational diving. Don't have to have discipline. Dive as you like..no briefings, no buddies, no worries. That's what many divers have been doing anyway. Everyone's back at home, no incidents, no accidents. You don't need safety stops even as long as you don't exceed your NDL or 30m.
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#27  Postby babyFin » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:32 am

SeaDemon wrote:What la talk about discipline?

It's recreational diving. Don't have to have discipline. Dive as you like..no briefings, no buddies, no worries. That's what many divers have been doing anyway. Everyone's back at home, no incidents, no accidents. You don't need safety stops even as long as you don't exceed your NDL or 30m.


SD, u have to take me out from the list i guess. me myself wont be going down there with out a buddy - in simple word..i wont be diving alone. certification is everything about safety..teach u loads regarding safety.. and there s a reminder, one should never dive alone..need a buddy. and that is why we need to have octo, wat is it for..and why do we have to do the 'buddy check'.. any idea?  ;)
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#28  Postby John F SeaDemon » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:55 am

babyFiN wrote:
SeaDemon wrote:What la talk about discipline?

It's recreational diving. Don't have to have discipline. Dive as you like..no briefings, no buddies, no worries. That's what many divers have been doing anyway. Everyone's back at home, no incidents, no accidents. You don't need safety stops even as long as you don't exceed your NDL or 30m.


SD, u have to take me out from the list i guess. me myself wont be going down there with out a buddy - in simple word..i wont be diving alone. certification is everything about safety..teach u loads regarding safety.. and there s a reminder, one should never dive alone..need a buddy. and that is why we need to have octo, wat is it for..and why do we have to do the 'buddy check'.. any idea?  ;)
:angel8: :angel8: :angel8:


Ahhh...glad that you are safety conscious unlike many in here.

Anyway, let me open your eyes a bit.

I started diving way back in 1982 when there was no octopus, no buddy, no recreational dive planner and no BCD. Not even a pressure gauge to tell you how much air you have left in your steel tank.

So how la?

Nowadays, you see divers with octopus but dive alone, learn how to use the RDP but never use, have pressure gauge but never check.

So how la?

I'm just being the as*h*** in here pricking up people's brains because I see in some trips, safety has gone down the drains. Plans are even being made to go where some divers shouldn't even venture to.

So where did these divers learn diving from?

So how la?
-If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying-
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#29  Postby babyFin » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:57 am

SeaDemon wrote:Ahhh...glad that you are safety conscious unlike many in here.

Anyway, let me open your eyes a bit.

I started diving way back in 1982 when there was no octopus, no buddy, no recreational dive planner and no BCD. Not even a pressure gauge to tell you how much air you have left in your steel tank.

So how la?


safety conscious? err..u think so?  ;) for me, safety always have to come first maa.. in 1982 (waaa! wats ur age now la?), that one i got no ide..i didnt even go to school yet..  :P but r u sure no buddy? no octo? and NO BCD??? hmm, i wonder why u dont have that..and wondering nowadays how come got all that..
:angel8: :angel8: :angel8:
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Re: Buddy System

Post Number:#30  Postby John F SeaDemon » Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:06 am

babyFiN wrote:
SeaDemon wrote:Ahhh...glad that you are safety conscious unlike many in here.

Anyway, let me open your eyes a bit.

I started diving way back in 1982 when there was no octopus, no buddy, no recreational dive planner and no BCD. Not even a pressure gauge to tell you how much air you have left in your steel tank.

So how la?


safety conscious? err..u think so?  ;) for me, safety always have to come first maa.. in 1982 (waaa! wats ur age now la?), that one i got no ide..i didnt even go to school yet..  :P but r u sure no buddy? no octo? and NO BCD??? hmm, i wonder why u dont have that..and wondering nowadays how come got all that..
:angel8: :angel8: :angel8:


I am 41 years old...and still going out on dates. I was 16 when I first dived. There was only one heavy regulator in the mouth. No octopus. No BCD but there was a backpack and harness straps. No weights because it was a steel J-valve tank. No pressure gauge, just a depth gauge. The only way for you to know that you have no more air is when it actually runs out of air, then you yank on the lever to give you just enough air to surface from whatever depth you're at (I ran out of air at 21m) and the only other person who was diving was diving somewhere else. No recreational dive planner because that only came about 5 years later. If you had to buddy-breathe, you share regulators.

You have those now as people put in redundancy into the configuration and switch from J to K valves. I first used a BCD only in 1991.

It is a lot safer to dive now..but many divers rely so much on the systems that they have rendered themselves unsafe.
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