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Why use wing BCD????

Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#61  Postby Sicko » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:02 am

nanda666 wrote:Just completed the confined water section of the IDC rescue section and my buddy with the "Wing" BCD was having some problems doing the rescue breathing as the wing BCD seem to be pushing him into difficult positions.

Any advice? [-(

What kind of positions? Underwater or floating on the surface?

From what I can understand, the fitting of the BCD is poor, thus causing problems.
Your buddy might want to readjust the straps.
A crotch strap will also help to improve stability if it is not used in the first place.
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#62  Postby Spazm » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:27 am

nanda666 wrote:Just completed the confined water section of the IDC rescue section and my buddy with the "Wing" BCD was having some problems doing the rescue breathing as the wing BCD seem to be pushing him into difficult positions.

Any advice? [-(


Switch to a "Proper" jacket BCD would be the best solution here. Using a Wing BCD (with harness and crotch strap) system I presume is not really suitable for instructor wannabe..:)

cheers cheers...
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#63  Postby nanda666 » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:14 pm

Sicko wrote:What kind of positions? Underwater or floating on the surface?


Actually it was on the surface. (Unconscious Diver on the surface)

He kept falling forward while holding the victim's head while keeping the airway clear and giving rescue breaths. He also kept falling forward while undoing the releases on the victim's BCD.

And as "Spazm" suggested, he's changing to a jacket BCD for the IE.

My query was more to know if anyone knows ways to counter this problem with the "wing" BCD so that a safe rescue can be carried out by a diver wearing this set up. (i.e. weight distribution??? Keeping weight belt on during an actual rescue??.... [-( [-( ......methods used by commercial divers????...etc...etc...)
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#64  Postby Sicko » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:11 pm

nanda666 wrote:
Sicko wrote:What kind of positions? Underwater or floating on the surface?


Actually it was on the surface. (Unconscious Diver on the surface)

He kept falling forward while holding the victim's head while keeping the airway clear and giving rescue breaths. He also kept falling forward while undoing the releases on the victim's BCD.

And as "Spazm" suggested, he's changing to a jacket BCD for the IE.

My query was more to know if anyone knows ways to counter this problem with the "wing" BCD so that a safe rescue can be carried out by a diver wearing this set up. (i.e. weight distribution??? Keeping weight belt on during an actual rescue??.... [-( [-( ......methods used by commercial divers????...etc...etc...)



If on the surface, then the BC is riding up on the torso. A crotch strap to limit the movement of the BCD will prevent this problem.
Anyone can do a dive to 100m or more.....
But how many will return alive???
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#65  Postby Snafu » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:05 pm

nanda666 wrote:Just completed the confined water section of the IDC rescue section and my buddy with the "Wing" BCD was having some problems doing the rescue breathing as the wing BCD seem to be pushing him into difficult positions.

Any advice? [-(


Tell your BUDDY NOT to take the instructor course yet...do learn more about his own equipment & explore it.

:D
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#66  Postby Sicko » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:00 am

Spazm wrote:
Switch to a "Proper" jacket BCD would be the best solution here. Using a Wing BCD (with harness and crotch strap) system I presume is not really suitable for instructor wannabe..:)

cheers cheers...

Why is it not suitable?
Anyone can do a dive to 100m or more.....
But how many will return alive???
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#67  Postby Spazm » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:04 am

Sicko wrote:
Spazm wrote:
Switch to a "Proper" jacket BCD would be the best solution here. Using a Wing BCD (with harness and crotch strap) system I presume is not really suitable for instructor wannabe..:)

cheers cheers...

Why is it not suitable?


IMHO, it is not suitable as most wing bcd doesnt come with a quick release harness and it not condusive for teaching, and it does not help the user to keep an upright position when descending (instructors and DM are most likely to be upright when descending to watch out for students/clients).
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#68  Postby Spazm » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:07 am

Sicko wrote:
nanda666 wrote:
Sicko wrote:What kind of positions? Underwater or floating on the surface?


Actually it was on the surface. (Unconscious Diver on the surface)

He kept falling forward while holding the victim's head while keeping the airway clear and giving rescue breaths. He also kept falling forward while undoing the releases on the victim's BCD.

And as "Spazm" suggested, he's changing to a jacket BCD for the IE.

My query was more to know if anyone knows ways to counter this problem with the "wing" BCD so that a safe rescue can be carried out by a diver wearing this set up. (i.e. weight distribution??? Keeping weight belt on during an actual rescue??.... [-( [-( ......methods used by commercial divers????...etc...etc...)



If on the surface, then the BC is riding up on the torso. A crotch strap to limit the movement of the BCD will prevent this problem.


Er...I dont think Commercial Divers uses a BCD for rescue ..:P
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#69  Postby meg » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:23 am

Spazm wrote:
Sicko wrote:
Spazm wrote:
Switch to a "Proper" jacket BCD would be the best solution here. Using a Wing BCD (with harness and crotch strap) system I presume is not really suitable for instructor wannabe..:)

cheers cheers...

Why is it not suitable?


IMHO, it is not suitable as most wing bcd doesnt come with a quick release harness and it not condusive for teaching, and it does not help the user to keep an upright position when descending (instructors and DM are most likely to be upright when descending to watch out for students/clients).


Hi,

Just want to give my 14 dives only opinion. I'm using OxyCheq Ultra Light Wing BC for about 7 dives already. The first 7 dives, I was using rented Apollo Jacket BC. I totally hate the jacket BC due to the following reason:

1. I'm quite big (with one big pack in front instead of the normal six pack) and should be using size XL for BC. Jacket BC for XL is way too big. L size is a bit small especially when you inflate. I totally hate the body squeeze when you inflate.

2. Not all Jacket BC has quick releases for the weight. So sometime you have to wear the weight belt. This one also i dont like. Too many things on my body makes me easily tired by the end of the dive especially when u surface.

3. Jacket BC, sometime quite hard to really really totally deflate

After using my own Wing BC (bought during MIDE), it felt really good. Very streamline as I have a simple setup. Movement very flexible... no need to wear weight belt as i got two small weight pocket to accomodate the weight....no body squeeze at all coz the wing is behind you...i can descend easily in an upright position.... can do swim thru easily as compare when using jacket bc at the same dive site and the best thing....my bc is damn light for travelling or during shore dive...

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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#70  Postby Sicko » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:38 am

Spazm wrote:
Sicko wrote:
Spazm wrote:
Switch to a "Proper" jacket BCD would be the best solution here. Using a Wing BCD (with harness and crotch strap) system I presume is not really suitable for instructor wannabe..:)

cheers cheers...

Why is it not suitable?


IMHO, it is not suitable as most wing bcd doesnt come with a quick release harness and it not condusive for teaching, and it does not help the user to keep an upright position when descending (instructors and DM are most likely to be upright when descending to watch out for students/clients).

Er........correct me if I'm wrong, but when decending, you can also watch out for students/clients when in horizontal position right?

Quick releases is not an issue as I feel it comes down to personal preference whether or not to install them(Yes. you can even install them on the basic 2" harness if you want).
The major backplate manufacturers have comfort harnesses that comes with quick release as standard......so I disagree with your statement highlighted in red.

As for helping the user to keep an upright position when decending, I also disagree with you. Reason : You will mostly have no air in whatever BCD you are using when decending. So it only comes down to individual skills to maintain the position you want.

Do not take this the wrong way, I am merely seeking different views to gain more knowledge.  :)
Last edited by Sicko on Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#71  Postby ikan » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:42 am

Syed K. A. wrote:
nanda666 wrote:Just completed the confined water section of the IDC rescue section and my buddy with the "Wing" BCD was having some problems doing the rescue breathing as the wing BCD seem to be pushing him into difficult positions.

Any advice? [-(


Tell your BUDDY NOT to take the instructor course yet...do learn more about his own equipment & explore it.

:D



Best advice so far ....
if u are going to be dumb, u better be tough ....
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#72  Postby Spazm » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:46 am

Sicko wrote:
Spazm wrote:
Sicko wrote:
Spazm wrote:
Switch to a "Proper" jacket BCD would be the best solution here. Using a Wing BCD (with harness and crotch strap) system I presume is not really suitable for instructor wannabe..:)

cheers cheers...

Why is it not suitable?


IMHO, it is not suitable as most wing bcd doesnt come with a quick release harness and it not condusive for teaching, and it does not help the user to keep an upright position when descending (instructors and DM are most likely to be upright when descending to watch out for students/clients).

Er........correct me if I'm wrong, but when decending, you can also watch out for students/clients when in horizontal position right?

Quick releases is not an issue as I feel it comes down to personal preference whether or not to install them(Yes. you can even install them on the basic 2" harness if you want).
The major backplate manufacturers have comfort harnesses that comes with quick release as standard......so I disagree with your statement highlighted in red.

As for helping the user to keep an upright position when decending, I also disagree with you. Reason : You will mostly have no air in whatever BCD you are using when decending. So it only comes down to individual skills to maintain the position you want.

Do not take this the wrong way, I am merely seeking different views to gain more knowledge.  :)


Haha..why would I take it the wrong way..its a public forum to seek opinion and views.
We bring out a point , we discuss and we learn...just like everyone else...:)
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#73  Postby nanda666 » Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:01 am

ikan wrote:
Syed K. A. wrote:
nanda666 wrote:Just completed the confined water section of the IDC rescue section and my buddy with the "Wing" BCD was having some problems doing the rescue breathing as the wing BCD seem to be pushing him into difficult positions.

Any advice? [-(


Tell your BUDDY NOT to take the instructor course yet...do learn more about his own equipment & explore it.

:D



Best advice so far ....




As moderators, pls don't undermine members asking questions to seek proper solutions la....not constructive in a forum environment... :( :(
Good education leads to good conservation!!
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#74  Postby ikan » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:11 pm

nanda666 wrote:
ikan wrote:
Syed K. A. wrote:
nanda666 wrote:Just completed the confined water section of the IDC rescue section and my buddy with the "Wing" BCD was having some problems doing the rescue breathing as the wing BCD seem to be pushing him into difficult positions.

Any advice? [-(


Tell your BUDDY NOT to take the instructor course yet...do learn more about his own equipment & explore it.

:D



Best advice so far ....




As moderators, pls don't undermine members asking questions to seek proper solutions la....not constructive in a forum environment... :( :(


As i recall, I don't see anywhere in that statement undermining you from seeking 'proper solutions' for the problem faced by your buddy during your IDC course.

But the reasons i agree to the advice given by Syed K.A. (Hail!) is because this buddy of yours is doing his IDC, the course to be future instructor to new divers. This is the guy who is going to guide new divers. Who does new diver look up to when they first venture into this activities? The instructor of course, but he himself doesnt know the characteristic of his own personal diving equipment and you expect him to guide new divers. What will become of them then? What type of diver will they become then?

What about yourself? Since u brought up the subject, have you ever tried using the back inflated BCD? Do you experience the same thing that he does? What steps did u take to adjust yourself to diving with this particular BCD?
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#75  Postby nanda666 » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:38 pm

As I'll say....AGAIN....he had not used a Wing BCD to perform rescue efforts before this pool session. Neither have I.

The question was posted to get suggestion from members if they have any solutions based on THEIR experience NOT mine.

If and when I obtain this information, I will, of course, share it with the members of this forum.

I ABSOLUTELY agree with you that students look up to instructors. (Having an instructor honest about finding solutions is a whole lot better than one who's not able to rescue you when you're in trouble for REAL!!)

And it's o.k buddy....he's taking "Spazm"s advice and changing to the jacket type for the IE. (Experimenting with rescue technics with wing BCD will still continue and we'll keep you posted!!  :) )
   
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#76  Postby clairvoyant » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:55 pm

You right Nanda,
I wish I can give advise how to help on the wing type BCD but I'm still learning. For teaching I think Jacket BCD better rather Wing (role model). My experiance even you used Zeagle back float jacket type BCD you still have difficulty at surface compare to normal jacket type.
Anyway I got both type and happy with its. We should learn to handle it dan familiarize to use it.

I think your buddy should take advantage on the wing type BC during rescue exercise because normally wing bc will push forward which is easy to do mouth to mouth rescue breathing. ;) :D :D

sorry I'm joking to cool down.
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#77  Postby nanda666 » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:13 pm

Hehehe!! Very funny.... :P

Actually we did consider not dropping his weights (for actual situation to keep him more vertical) but for rescue demonstration, you have to drop your and the victims weights..

We'll see how things go on the island in open water... :)
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#78  Postby Mephisto the Heretic » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:17 pm

On a different note on continuous harness system, on a emegency ditching situation, you have the option of cutting the harness, so a cutting tool is vital to every diver.

As for jacket or back plate for rescue situation, please remember that you will never know what type of system you will encounter in the real world. Even though the various courses teach you to ditch jacket sytem, you should also familiarise your self with backplate and other sytem so that when a real life problem accurs, we wont hear '' Where is the f u c k i ng quick relase on this backplate system?''

As for doing rescue breath on surface and and having difficulty administring it using backplates, i agree, you will tend to fall fowards.
Solution...ditch your equipment and then do the rescue breath. You should be able to do this, life guards do it every day.

Your certification body dont agree with the above or dont accomodate backplates system? s c r e w them! they should realise there are many BCD sytem out there and they should train their trainers/instructors to become familiar with all system.

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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#79  Postby kimseng the maverick rogue » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:53 pm

Sicko wrote:
As for helping the user to keep an upright position when decending, I also disagree with you. Reason : You will mostly have no air in whatever BCD you are using when decending. So it only comes down to individual skills to maintain the position you want.

Do not take this the wrong way, I am merely seeking different views to gain more knowledge.  :)


i'm no CD but i'd recommend all professionals to carry extra weights with them... this is a natural practise for me.
be it a dive guide, rescue diver, instructor.  in this case i ALWAYS have some air in my BCD while monitoring students decending, otherwise i'll sink faster than you say "fat bast*rd"  :D

now for rescue scenarios, i'd have to agree with mephisto, learn the different configurations you might not be able to learn it all but do take the initiative to learn as much as possible. if the requirement is leave the BCD on so just do it. the main purpose of the IDC and IE is being able to demonstrate it to the students effectively.
but when you are teaching a rescue course, DO discuss all possible scenarios with the student. i.e. what should stay and what should be removed.

but i will dwell a bit deeper on why jacket BCD's are my prefered choice.

1. THE POCKETS!! store weights, condoms, lobsters  :D :D :D :D
2. positioning on the surface, now many will add that the wing type will offer the same but lets examine MEG statements;
quote "I totally hate the body squeeze when you inflate." - i love this feeling, hey this is a mini boat... well float supporting and hugging my body. is it useful on the surface?
3. clips... clips... and clips.... love em for hanging my torch, camera, jack daniels, DSMB, pointers, reels, and the whole load of stuffs if i choose to bring them along.
4. if shit happens and somebody has to rescue me, i'm convinced they know my configuration...... VERY GENERIC config.

so that all folks..... bored diver at work and not diving...  :D :P
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#80  Postby Sicko » Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:46 pm

kimseng the maverick rogue wrote:
Sicko wrote:
As for helping the user to keep an upright position when decending, I also disagree with you. Reason : You will mostly have no air in whatever BCD you are using when decending. So it only comes down to individual skills to maintain the position you want.

Do not take this the wrong way, I am merely seeking different views to gain more knowledge.  :)


i'm no CD but i'd recommend all professionals to carry extra weights with them... this is a natural practise for me.
be it a dive guide, rescue diver, instructor.  in this case i ALWAYS have some air in my BCD while monitoring students decending, otherwise i'll sink faster than you say "fat bast*rd"  :D

now for rescue scenarios, i'd have to agree with mephisto, learn the different configurations you might not be able to learn it all but do take the initiative to learn as much as possible. if the requirement is leave the BCD on so just do it. the main purpose of the IDC and IE is being able to demonstrate it to the students effectively.
but when you are teaching a rescue course, DO discuss all possible scenarios with the student. i.e. what should stay and what should be removed.

but i will dwell a bit deeper on why jacket BCD's are my prefered choice.

1. THE POCKETS!! store weights, condoms, lobsters  :D :D :D :D
2. positioning on the surface, now many will add that the wing type will offer the same but lets examine MEG statements;
quote "I totally hate the body squeeze when you inflate." - i love this feeling, hey this is a mini boat... well float supporting and hugging my body. is it useful on the surface?
3. clips... clips... and clips.... love em for hanging my torch, camera, jack daniels, DSMB, pointers, reels, and the whole load of stuffs if i choose to bring them along.
4. if shit happens and somebody has to rescue me, i'm convinced they know my configuration...... VERY GENERIC config.

so that all folks..... bored diver at work and not diving...  :D :P


So you bring condoms along when diving..............to screw fishes????   :D

Jokes aside, you can add pouches to the waist/shoulder strap of the wing type BC if you need to store stuff..............
Last edited by Sicko on Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#81  Postby kimseng the maverick rogue » Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:53 pm

Sicko wrote:
So you bring condoms along when diving..............to screw fishes????   :D


ohh... many many reasons...
e.g. show somebody the middle finger with it on, extra list bag, DSMB, balloon to fool around, screwing a HUMAN u/water.... the list goes on...
think creatively :D :D :D :D :D
anyway need more feedback on this thread...
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#82  Postby sheila » Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:58 pm

good and very informative. So as a REMINDER to myself before jump into the water:
(1) take the initiative to become familiar with all type of BC in the market altho u owedy hv ur preferred choice and,
(2) make it a habit to observe the set up of ur buddies' equipment and keep in mind what wud be ur action plan in case emergency happens.

p/s wahhh...Kimseng's buddy must feel da very safe diving with him  :D  :P
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#83  Postby Sicko » Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:01 pm

sheila wrote:good and very informative. So as a REMINDER to myself before jump into the water:
(1) take the initiative to become familiar with all type of BC in the market altho u owedy hv ur preferred choice and,
(2) make it a habit to observe the set up of ur buddies' equipment and keep in mind what wud be ur action plan in case emergency happens.

p/s wahhh...Kimseng's buddy must feel da very safe diving with him   :D  :P

Yep.........that's a good practice.......

But be careful...........he carries condoms underwater  :D

Sorry.............couldn't help it........I'll take my leave now.............
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#84  Postby kimseng the maverick rogue » Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:21 pm

Sicko wrote:
Jokes aside, you can add pouches to the waist/shoulder strap of the wing type BC if you need to store stuff..............


agree... but the threadstarter asked about the IDC & IE. I would say stick to the jacket type.
I would not use back inflation/wing type when i'm teaching. Cause i like to make myself a mirror image to the student...
Monkey see monkey do  :P :P

That way they learn better. After all how many students start using OMS/Oxycheq/DiveRite?
they must either be THAT good or SUPER ELITE.... or even just plan LCLY....  :D :D :D

So Nanda,
My summary would be remember why the IE has this requirement.... to Exaggerate the moves involved in the skills so that the students can better learn through mimicking you...... u don't actually shout out everything you do in a REAL rescue scenario don't you? ;)
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#85  Postby HoleMaster » Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:54 am

nanda666 wrote:Just completed the confined water section of the IDC rescue section and my buddy with the "Wing" BCD was having some problems doing the rescue breathing as the wing BCD seem to be pushing him into difficult positions.

Any advice? [-(


My opinion, ur fren should get used to using the wing BCD. If its too troublesome and detrimental for the IE, u shud stick back to the BCD which he or she is familiar e.g Jacket type. Frankly speaking if u know how to use and are very familiar with ur Wing BCD, its so much easier to do the rescue skill. Like others has highlighted...know ur equipment.....My RM0.000001 opinion... Cheers! :glasses9:
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#86  Postby Sicko » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:01 am

kimseng the maverick rogue wrote:
agree... but the threadstarter asked about the IDC & IE. I would say stick to the jacket type.
I would not use back inflation/wing type when i'm teaching. Cause i like to make myself a mirror image to the student...
Monkey see monkey do  :P :P

That way they learn better. After all how many students start using OMS/Oxycheq/DiveRite?
they must either be THAT good or SUPER ELITE.... or even just plan LCLY....  :D :D :D

So Nanda,
My summary would be remember why the IE has this requirement.... to Exaggerate the moves involved in the skills so that the students can better learn through mimicking you...... u don't actually shout out everything you do in a REAL rescue scenario don't you? ;)


Well...........if you have students who are like some of the GUE DIR lemmings type, then it is the case of monkey see monkey do...........Instructor say, student take it as god's word.........  :D

Some people actually analyse their instructor's teachings/advice and then decide for themselves. When unsure, they will ask somemore or seek 2nd or 3rd opinion......these are the people who will actually learn something.

Doing something through mimickry without understanding what the F*** they're doing is something very stupid and could endanger lives.........

As an instructor, if you teach your students to just mimick you, you are not imparting knowledge. You are merely teaching them to act like you..........

So why limit yourself? I would recommend doing the course using the equipment that you use during most dives and find a way to counter the problem you are facing.

There's more than one way to skin a cat............ And like you said, be imaginative.........  :D
Anyone can do a dive to 100m or more.....
But how many will return alive???
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#87  Postby sheila » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:20 am

i hv a question...does it stated in the Instructor Manual...or any other documentation published by PADI or NAUI or SSI or etc....compulsory or recommended equipment that instructor need to adhere while conducting their teaching exercise?
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#88  Postby nanda666 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:54 am

sheila wrote:i hv a question...does it stated in the Instructor Manual...or any other documentation published by PADI or NAUI or SSI or etc....compulsory or recommended equipment that instructor need to adhere while conducting their teaching exercise?


Actually the PADI instructors manual does do so in great detail. Only they don't tell you what type/brand or where you want to put it. (i.e. You can have a compass on your SPG or on your wrist, You can have your slates in your pocket or on a clip, You can have a knife attached to your BCD or to your thigh, etc, etc)
In similar fashion, it says that you have to have a bouyancy control device and not what type.

As you can clearly see all through this thread, the back inflation BCD is a "Tech diving designed" equipment that is now finding it's way into recreational diving.
Most of it's design specs (Easy for twin tanks, wreck penetration, high degree of streamlining, etc) were made for highly specialised diving.

The instructor manual has no restrictions in using these BCDs. How you use them to adhere to all set standards is up to an individual instructor candidate.
 
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#89  Postby kimseng the maverick rogue » Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:02 pm

Sicko wrote:Some people actually analyse their instructor's teachings/advice and then decide for themselves. When unsure, they will ask somemore or seek 2nd or 3rd opinion......these are the people who will actually learn something.

Doing something through mimickry without understanding what the F*** they're doing is something very stupid and could endanger lives.........

As an instructor, if you teach your students to just mimick you, you are not imparting knowledge. You are merely teaching them to act like you..........

So why limit yourself? I would recommend doing the course using the equipment that you use during most dives and find a way to counter the problem you are facing.

There's more than one way to skin a cat............ And like you said, be imaginative.........  :D


the whole idea in the demonstration is to show how it is done... so in a way they will mimic... but that's not the important part as you highlighted. what's more important is the discussion and rational of doing the exercise.
In rescuing somebody there is no RIGHT way... just the one that works quick and efficient, given the situation.
A quote from a close friend of mine "Death is the worst condition of life, so you can't beat worst? Do what you can!" :icon_scratch:
I subscribe to the thought of a wholesome learning process... not just doing a puppet show where i'm the puppet master... :D

as for the IDC i agree with Sicko, use the set-up you are going to use when teaching....
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Re: Why use wing BCD????

Post Number:#90  Postby Sicko » Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:22 pm

kimseng the maverick rogue wrote:the whole idea in the demonstration is to show how it is done... so in a way they will mimic... but that's not the important part as you highlighted. what's more important is the discussion and rational of doing the exercise.
In rescuing somebody there is no RIGHT way... just the one that works quick and efficient, given the situation.

A quote from a close friend of mine "Death is the worst condition of life, so you can't beat worst? Do what you can!" :icon_scratch:
I subscribe to the thought of a wholesome learning process... not just doing a puppet show where i'm the puppet master... :D

as for the IDC i agree with Sicko, use the set-up you are going to use when teaching....


I fully agree  :)

Death is not the worst condition of life : Death means already dead. The worst condition is the suffering before death  ;) Then again.........it's only my opinion....... :D
Anyone can do a dive to 100m or more.....
But how many will return alive???
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