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Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

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Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#1  Postby SeaDemon » Tue May 15, 2007 4:44 pm

PSAI/TDI Deep Air certification allows the diver to go down to 55m on air (threshold of air at PPO2 1.4 before O2 Tox).

However, IANTD's Deep Diver allows the diver to go on air down to depths NOT MORE THAN 39m.  Isn't this within recreational's emergency limits still?  Depths exceeding 40m have different characteristics that IANTD divers may not have experienced...the pressure, eerieness etc.

So, would an IANTD Deep Diver be able to join PSAI/TDI Deep Divers in a dive exceeding 40m? Is it advisable?
SeaDemon
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#2  Postby Jim » Tue May 15, 2007 6:35 pm

Doesn't matter anymore. Heard that they are merging but still retain their agency name. Hence all courses will use the same material & standards. Its up to the students whether they want PSAI or IANTD card.

This is what been told to me. True or not, i can't verify...
Jim
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#3  Postby SeaDemon » Tue May 15, 2007 6:53 pm

Of course it matters. Pre-merger the students only did to a max of 39m. A lot of difference.
SeaDemon
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#4  Postby santadive » Tue May 15, 2007 7:39 pm

The PSAI Deep Air program is a Narcosis-managment program on the Extreme side... -They actually run programs where you use air beyond the 1.4 ppO2 (Hall Watts and his people will basically charge you per extra meter of depth)
The IANTD Deep Diver is their equivalent of the PADI-deep spec(just a hell of a lot more demanding for the student which is sort of a safer way of training people)... -and is naturally a prereq to their technical programs...

I am sorry but I can not see the fun side (any more anyway) of going beyond 50 - 55 meters on air -on a single tank (IANTD require twins) -That is Technical diving, it need a plan and formal decompression...
People that for the fun of it on a recreational dive go a bit deep -have NO CLUE what they are doing...  (believe me, cos' I used to be one of them...)

Most times it will be ok... -but no-one knows when the O2- or N2 monsters decide to bite...

If they do... it's bye bye [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]
santadive
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#5  Postby SeaDemon » Tue May 15, 2007 9:27 pm

The PSAI Deep Air program is a Narcosis-managment program on the Extreme side... -They actually run programs where you use air beyond the 1.4 ppO2 (Hall Watts and his people will basically charge you per extra meter of depth)
The IANTD Deep Diver is their equivalent of the PADI-deep spec(just a hell of a lot more demanding for the student which is sort of a safer way of training people)... -and is naturally a prereq to their technical programs...

I am sorry but I can not see the fun side (any more anyway) of going beyond 50 - 55 meters on air -on a single tank (IANTD require twins) -That is Technical diving, it need a plan and formal decompression...
People that for the fun of it on a recreational dive go a bit deep -have NO CLUE what they are doing...  (believe me, cos' I used to be one of them...)

Most times it will be ok... -but no-one knows when the O2- or N2 monsters decide to bite...

If they do... it's bye bye [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]


I agree with you, Santa.

For depths deeper than 30m, I would rather have Normoxic at least. When N2 hits, it hits hard.  Have been harping in here about the dangers of deep diving on air without proper narcosis and decompression management training/certification.

Back to the main issue, would you take an IANTD Deep Diver on a 55m dive to a wreck?
SeaDemon
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#6  Postby GOD » Tue May 15, 2007 9:31 pm

Back to the main issue, would you take an IANTD Deep Diver on a 55m dive to a wreck?


No  ;) ... is deep & I wont want to get myself into trouble.

On a more serious note .... NO!!!

;D
GOD
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#7  Postby SeaDemon » Tue May 15, 2007 9:36 pm

Back to the main issue, would you take an IANTD Deep Diver on a 55m dive to a wreck?


No  ;) ... is deep & I wont want to get myself into trouble.

On a more serious note .... NO!!!

;D


Oops  ;D
SeaDemon
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#8  Postby SeaDemon » Wed May 16, 2007 4:36 am

I found this on the IANTD website http://www.iantd.com/iantd3.html

IANTD Deep Diver is listed as a Non-Technical certification.

Deep Diver

This program has been developed to provide responsible training to divers who plan to dive to 130 fsw (39 msw) on air. The IANTD Deep Air Diver program trains divers in skills, performance, theory and planning of deep dives. This program remains within the commonly practiced depth of 130 fsw (39 msw). It is the first sanctioned program to provide proper international training in safe deep diving skills and performance. It is recommended that this program be taught in conjunction with the IANTD EANx Diver program.


Therefore, I would omit a diver with this qualification from a tech diving trip.
SeaDemon
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#9  Postby nana » Wed May 16, 2007 3:41 pm


Therefore, I would omit a diver with this qualification from a tech diving trip.


is there a possible tech trip sir?  ::)

Jim bro, now u know y larr.........  ::)  
Last edited by nana on Wed May 16, 2007 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
nana
 
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Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#10  Postby SeaDemon » Wed May 16, 2007 6:12 pm


Therefore, I would omit a diver with this qualification from a tech diving trip.


is there a possible tech trip sir?  ::)


Only for those qualified: bare minimum - PSAI/TDI Deco Procedures and equivalent certification from other tech diving agencies.
SeaDemon
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#11  Postby Jim » Wed May 16, 2007 7:29 pm


Therefore, I would omit a diver with this qualification from a tech diving trip.


is there a possible tech trip sir?  ::)

Jim bro, now u know y larr.........  ::)  



so, u let him go to join the trip?. Ok what..... We baby sit him for u....hehehe
Jim
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#12  Postby HoleMaster » Wed May 16, 2007 11:38 pm

this trip is for all the SIFUS SIFUS IN THA HOUSE....myself scared oledi with the tech talk and all.... :o :o
HoleMaster
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#13  Postby GOD » Thu May 17, 2007 12:57 am

this trip is for all the SIFUS SIFUS IN THA HOUSE....myself scared oledi with the tech talk and all.... :o :o


Holemaster ... I am scared too, we will stick to our recreational diving ok.

This is serious stuff for serious diver, we are only JOKER.

;D
GOD
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#14  Postby SeaDemon » Thu May 17, 2007 3:49 am

Holey, you carry Nitrox on your back...I don't. I use normal air. You're one macho techie  ;D
SeaDemon
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#15  Postby superkingkong » Thu May 17, 2007 10:32 am

hi guys... PSAI doesn't have deco procedure course ... what is the equavalent course that they provide?

adv nitrox? or extended range nitrox?

thx
superkingkong
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#16  Postby nana » Thu May 17, 2007 10:42 am

hi guys... PSAI doesn't have deco procedure course ... what is the equavalent course that they provide?

adv nitrox? or extended range nitrox?

thx


JIM, i'm D 1 who needs babysitting!..... NOT !  ;D  ;D  ;D

SKK, got...for adv nitrox lar... Its Advance Nitrox Decompression Procedure (PSAI)  ;) , i googled it...  ::)  ;D  ;D  ;D
nana
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#17  Postby superkingkong » Thu May 17, 2007 11:26 am

hi guys... PSAI doesn't have deco procedure course ... what is the equavalent course that they provide?

adv nitrox? or extended range nitrox?

thx


JIM, i'm D 1 who needs babysitting!..... NOT !  ;D  ;D  ;D

SKK, got...for adv nitrox lar... Its Advance Nitrox Decompression Procedure (PSAI)  ;) , i googled it...  ::)  ;D  ;D  ;D


adv nitrox? .. this course is cheap leh... rm300+  only :P
which url u check?

http://www.psai.com/extendedrange.html
superkingkong
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#18  Postby GOD » Thu May 17, 2007 11:55 am

PSAi will use Extended Range Nitrox .... as u be using the EANx for deco gas.

EANx is not to be use deep OK.

The higher % of O2 ... the shallower it goes.

;D
GOD
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#19  Postby HoleMaster » Thu May 17, 2007 2:11 pm

this trip is for all the SIFUS SIFUS IN THA HOUSE....myself scared oledi with the tech talk and all.... :o :o


Holemaster ... I am scared too, we will stick to our recreational diving ok.

This is serious stuff for serious diver, we are only JOKER.

;D


Hahahahaha serious stuff indeed...i bet myself with twins will look like a JOKER.... ;D ;D
HoleMaster
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#20  Postby HoleMaster » Thu May 17, 2007 2:13 pm

Holey, you carry Nitrox on your back...I don't. I use normal air. You're one macho techie  ;D


at least u can go more than 40m...and then u have stage tank with at least 50% 02...that made me scared oledi :o :o
HoleMaster
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#21  Postby SeaDemon » Thu May 17, 2007 2:56 pm

this trip is for all the SIFUS SIFUS IN THA HOUSE....myself scared oledi with the tech talk and all.... :o :o


Holemaster ... I am scared too, we will stick to our recreational diving ok.

This is serious stuff for serious diver, we are only JOKER.

;D


Hahahahaha serious stuff indeed...i bet myself with twins will look like a JOKER.... ;D ;D


With that teeny-weenie wing? Perhaps!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
SeaDemon
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#22  Postby superkingkong » Thu May 17, 2007 5:42 pm

PSAi will use Extended Range Nitrox .... as u be using the EANx for deco gas.

EANx is not to be use deep OK.

The higher % of O2 ... the shallower it goes.

;D


thanks for letting me know :)
Last edited by superkingkong on Thu May 17, 2007 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
superkingkong
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#23  Postby HoleMaster » Thu May 17, 2007 5:50 pm

this trip is for all the SIFUS SIFUS IN THA HOUSE....myself scared oledi with the tech talk and all.... :o :o


Holemaster ... I am scared too, we will stick to our recreational diving ok.

This is serious stuff for serious diver, we are only JOKER.

;D


Hahahahaha serious stuff indeed...i bet myself with twins will look like a JOKER.... ;D ;D


With that teeny-weenie wing? Perhaps!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


hehehehehe teeny minnie ;D
HoleMaster
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#24  Postby SeaDemon » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:09 am

Okay...playtime over now it's back to work.

A lot has been said about deep air diving in this thread and some others as well.  As mentioned by SKK in one of the topics, an agency is offering Narcosis Management to depths of 73m on air. Although I am not an authority to question the agency's methods but that is extremely deep for air even by a PPO2 of 1.6. We've had people talk in here about DMs and Instructors doing deep air dives at Sipadan, doing touch and go to recover lost items etc.

I have been reading some incident reports whereby a group of instructors who, on their off days, would dive down to 90m on air (PPO2 2.1) frequently and have conditioned their body to this extreme condition. However, on one subsequent dive, one fell unconscious at just 60m without warning and was out of reach of his buddies.

His body was never found.

Another diver, diving a wreck at just 50m, became unconscious and convulsed. Lucky for him his buddies were there, managed to rescue and resuscitate him.

The problem is, these types of incidents also happen to cocktail-gas divers and is not limited to air divers alone, but the cases percentage is a lot less.

N2 narcosis is the main culprit in deep air dives. I have always had this fear of suddenly removing my regulator at depth when narcosis hits me...especially in an overhead or virtual overhead environment. If you swim a lot at depth, or work your way to get to depth, the chances of hypercapnia is high, and hypercapnia also increases the chance of narcosis, and of course, DCI. No matter how conditioned you are to such extreme conditions, N2 narcosis will hit you whenever it wants to hit you.

There are also several reasons people go unconscious underwater.  Among them are hypercapnia, O2 Tox, N2 Narc and DCI. All are brought about by deep diving. And studies have shown that the conditions that promote the onset of DCI generally occurs at depths of 24m and deeper.

AND ACCORDING TO A DAN REPORT:

"Various data indicate that deeper diving is associated with a substantially increased risk of decompression illness. This risk appears to increase at depths beyond about 80 ft (24m). In addition, using a dive computer to guide decompression from deep air dives appears to increase the risk further due to the greater dive times allowed and the increased unreliability of the algorithms at depth."

What do you think of that? Any inputs? Disputes? Please comment.
SeaDemon
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#25  Postby putradiver » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:14 am

I do agree and will always stick to what I had been tols and learned which is ppo 1.6 for ascending and do the decos only.

Higher than 1.6, everything is not stable anymore.  
putradiver
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#26  Postby anas » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:20 am

this trip is for all the SIFUS SIFUS IN THA HOUSE....myself scared oledi with the tech talk and all.... :o :o


Holemaster ... I am scared too, we will stick to our recreational diving ok.

This is serious stuff for serious diver, we are only JOKER.

;D


Hahahahaha serious stuff indeed...i bet myself with twins will look like a JOKER.... ;D ;D


Seen you doing twins now, bro. So you look like a JOKER lah, is it??
anas
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#27  Postby superkingkong » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:23 am

thanks SD... serious stuff.. real stuff indeed...

but this doesn't scare me  8-)  ;)  ;D
joke aside...

it's kinda scary though.... continue learning.. and be safe :)
superkingkong
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#28  Postby poRnstar » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:29 am

Helo SKK!!!

so, they have been telling me about SKK.. now i met u..
;)
poRnstar
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#29  Postby superkingkong » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:39 am

Helo SKK!!!

so, they have been telling me about SKK.. now i met u..
;)


kekekee.. telling u bad things about me?  ;D .. nice to meet u too  ;)
superkingkong
 
Topic author

Re: Deep Air Diving - Same Same But Different

Post Number:#30  Postby Jim » Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:47 pm

Stick to 1.6 & limit yr self to the depth you were trained for..... No need to be a daredevil....
Jim
 
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