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DIR / GUE......what is this???

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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#61  Postby Sicko » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:35 pm

Spazm wrote:
SuperKingKong® wrote:that day i attended a GUE talk...

this is what they argue... in Florida, there is a cave... very dangerous... all pros tech divers went in also die... then this few divers, from WKPP... plan their equipments, using standardise equipment, and not forgetting ways, teamworks... they went in.. and came out successfully, hence, DIR is born... it's a close to fool-prove way of diving. the only thing that can go wrong, is diver himself :) GUE is an organisation they formed to teach DIR... halcyon is the brand they came out with...

and i think he mentioned rule #1 in DIR: don't dive with non-DIR diver (but it's up to the diver himself), because they talk different language.
so, it u take a msia DIR diver and put it in USA to dive with DIR divers there, they talk the same language.. so, all procedures are the same and they can dive safely right away.


So if they cannot find a buddy who is DIR-F certified...can they dive alone without a buddy...since they insist that the buddy must be DIR-F certified??..


I think they have a rule never to dive alone............... :D
Anyone can do a dive to 100m or more.....
But how many will return alive???
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#62  Postby Sicko » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:39 pm

SuperKingKong® wrote:
Spazm wrote:
SuperKingKong® wrote:that day i attended a GUE talk...

this is what they argue... in Florida, there is a cave... very dangerous... all pros tech divers went in also die... then this few divers, from WKPP... plan their equipments, using standardise equipment, and not forgetting ways, teamworks... they went in.. and came out successfully, hence, DIR is born... it's a close to fool-prove way of diving. the only thing that can go wrong, is diver himself :) GUE is an organisation they formed to teach DIR... halcyon is the brand they came out with...

and i think he mentioned rule #1 in DIR: don't dive with non-DIR diver (but it's up to the diver himself), because they talk different language.
so, it u take a msia DIR diver and put it in USA to dive with DIR divers there, they talk the same language.. so, all procedures are the same and they can dive safely right away.


So if they cannot find a buddy who is DIR-F certified...can they dive alone without a buddy...since they insist that the buddy must be DIR-F certified??..

if they are strict enough.. the answer is NO  :D
that's why.. it's up to them whether do they want to risk their lives  ;) and also their training effort :P that is why.. it's something like a cult :)

also, according to them... the 5m/3mins safety stop is not safe :) why risk urself GOING up to that depth to stop?
in their course, they will recommend the "multi-level" stops... something like 9m for 1min,6m for 1min, 3m for 1min (maybe i'm wrong with the figures... but this is what they do).. gradual stop

and during deco stop, they don't recommend u doing it in vertical position.... it should be in horizontal position.. that way, all the parts of your body will be in the same depth... thus offgassing the same rate... which kinda makes sence.


That's only part of the reason they deco in horizontal position. In that position, you are more able to react quickly by finning downwards should there be any emergency.(ie : a boat passing overhead)

It's a good deco position that most instructors are teaching nowadays..............
Last edited by Sicko on Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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But how many will return alive???
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#63  Postby SuperKingKong® » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:40 pm

Sicko wrote:
Spazm wrote:
SuperKingKong® wrote:that day i attended a GUE talk...

this is what they argue... in Florida, there is a cave... very dangerous... all pros tech divers went in also die... then this few divers, from WKPP... plan their equipments, using standardise equipment, and not forgetting ways, teamworks... they went in.. and came out successfully, hence, DIR is born... it's a close to fool-prove way of diving. the only thing that can go wrong, is diver himself :) GUE is an organisation they formed to teach DIR... halcyon is the brand they came out with...

and i think he mentioned rule #1 in DIR: don't dive with non-DIR diver (but it's up to the diver himself), because they talk different language.
so, it u take a msia DIR diver and put it in USA to dive with DIR divers there, they talk the same language.. so, all procedures are the same and they can dive safely right away.


So if they cannot find a buddy who is DIR-F certified...can they dive alone without a buddy...since they insist that the buddy must be DIR-F certified??..


I think they have a rule never to dive alone............... :D


of coz... the key is safety :)
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#64  Postby SuperKingKong® » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:43 pm

Sicko wrote:
SuperKingKong® wrote:
Spazm wrote:
SuperKingKong® wrote:that day i attended a GUE talk...

this is what they argue... in Florida, there is a cave... very dangerous... all pros tech divers went in also die... then this few divers, from WKPP... plan their equipments, using standardise equipment, and not forgetting ways, teamworks... they went in.. and came out successfully, hence, DIR is born... it's a close to fool-prove way of diving. the only thing that can go wrong, is diver himself :) GUE is an organisation they formed to teach DIR... halcyon is the brand they came out with...

and i think he mentioned rule #1 in DIR: don't dive with non-DIR diver (but it's up to the diver himself), because they talk different language.
so, it u take a msia DIR diver and put it in USA to dive with DIR divers there, they talk the same language.. so, all procedures are the same and they can dive safely right away.


So if they cannot find a buddy who is DIR-F certified...can they dive alone without a buddy...since they insist that the buddy must be DIR-F certified??..

if they are strict enough.. the answer is NO  :D
that's why.. it's up to them whether do they want to risk their lives  ;) and also their training effort :P that is why.. it's something like a cult :)

also, according to them... the 5m/3mins safety stop is not safe :) why risk urself GOING up to that depth to stop?
in their course, they will recommend the "multi-level" stops... something like 9m for 1min,6m for 1min, 3m for 1min (maybe i'm wrong with the figures... but this is what they do).. gradual stop

and during deco stop, they don't recommend u doing it in vertical position.... it should be in horizontal position.. that way, all the parts of your body will be in the same depth... thus offgassing the same rate... which kinda makes sence.


That's only part of the reason they deco in horizontal position. In that position, you are more able to react quickly by finning downwards should there be any emergency.(ie : a boat passing overhead)

It's a good deco position that most instructors are teaching nowadays..............


ic.. i'm not sure .. just that he told us... he saw lots deco divers..when doing deco stop.. in vertical position... so, i posted here...
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#65  Postby mocha » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:05 pm

wah... say if u are a DIR/GUE diver and u are alone, u are not allowed to dive wif any other divers??
solution : they will rent a jacket BC from the DC and flash their OW C-card from whatever agency that certified them in the first place.... :p

hmm.... now tell me, which diver go straight to 5m from whatever depth the are at....am sure the cheapest dive comp in the market will also scream like hell..... 
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#66  Postby John F SeaDemon » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:22 pm

Well, I argued with the GUE guy on another forum (I believe he was the one who gave the talk) that what is DIR for him may not be DIR for me.  You cannot have one standard that applies to all in terms of equipment configuration simply because everyone is an individual and have his/her own peculiarities. If I am an amputee with only one arm, the DIR method of equipment configuration would mean that I will never be able to do tech diving...especially with them because having only one arm means you are doing it wrong.

Equipment config is all about common sense. What made backplates come into existence? Well, for one simple reason that if you wear a weightbelt snugly, at 20m it would become lose due to the pressure on your body.  And if you are in a wreck or cave, it might snag something and get entangled. Or it might drag and cause silt to be suspended in the water thus reducing viz. So they made backplates for tech diving. But as Nizaha said, do you need weights if you are diving with a twin set? I don't. What more if I have two deco bottles of 80 cu ft each. I'd sink like a stone if there is no air inside the bladder.

But when it comes to GUE-F/DIR-F, and the need to have DIR-configured equipment for you to be able to do the course, I do not see the point in that! I don't see the point in rec divers using backplates at all in open water. The reasons I see people using backplates for their recreational set-up are:

1) It looks cool

2) No requirement for weightbelt

3) Lazy to trim

Which goes back to my question: if you are a recreational diver using backplate, how do you dump your weight if you need to do an emergency ascent?  Has anyone using backplates fro their rec set-up ever thought of trying out CESA and manually blow into the bladder at the surface? It may work in a pool. But try doing that when you have 1.5 meter waves.

Another reason I do not use backplates is of course the bulkiness and weight it bears. If I go to Sipadan on a 5D/4N trip I will surely have to pay excess baggage if I travel alone. And I pity the boatman who has to pull your BCD up into the boat.

Tech divers walk up a fishbone ladder onto the boat - we don't pass anything except our stage tanks. And those who did tech or tech entry courses at Panuba would remember having to climb up that wooden and slippery ladder of the wooden jetty with your twins on your back.

On the 5/3 stop, they cannot condemn saying it is not safe. It has been proven scientifically that it is a safe and best method to off-gas for non-deco dives, as long as your rate of ascent is being watched and adheres to the recommendations.

A deep stop for recreational diving? Can. I have been doing that and I have taught several people in this forum to do so.  If I dive down to 30m, then I may start my stops at 15m; or using Pyle's method, I'd start at 24m.  Using simple calculations, my deep stops would take 12 minutes altogether, and then my final ascent from the 3m stop to the surface would take me another 3 minutes (one meter per minute rate of ascent). So that is 15 minutes in total! Imagine the number of things you could see in a 15-minute dive! Such a waste! Furthermore, not all recreational depths come with the mandatory 5/3-stop requirement. So it is still safe for you to ascend, following the recommended rate, direct to the surface from a recreational dive. So why waste 15 minutes of your RM70?  Of course it is safer. But I suppose the guy also did not tell you that doing too long a stop on air is also not good as it wouldn't help the off-gassing process by much. You're just adding more N2 into your system.

And by saying that the scientifically-proven 5/3 stop is not safe shows sheer arrogance that has put many people (divers) off the GUE methodology. It is as good as slandering other dive training agencies - the very agencies that have been feeding these GUE bast*rds with divers. If they are so good, why don't they have a GUE-OW course? Why rely on other agencies to feed them?

Their DIR is my DIW. My DIR is DIMW.
Last edited by John F SeaDemon on Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#67  Postby SuperKingKong® » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:22 pm

yoonming wrote:wah... say if u are a DIR/GUE diver and u are alone, u are not allowed to dive wif any other divers??
solution : they will rent a jacket BC from the DC and flash their OW C-card from whatever agency that certified them in the first place.... :p

hmm.... now tell me, which diver go straight to 5m from whatever depth the are at....am sure the cheapest dive comp in the market will also scream like hell..... 


well, it's all depends on how strict u wanna be. depends on u.. if u r a dir freak.. u will say NO.. if u r not, then it will be ok to you... no police will gonna arrest u.

ermm.. maybe some wreck divers do? they go down to whatever depth.. after explore.. they ascent to 5m :)
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#68  Postby SuperKingKong® » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:35 pm

hahaha...
SD, i love u lah...everythinhg also u can argue :P

well, i know it's all about safety... maybe their ways promote extra safety.

from what i think... divers already limited... so, if i'm a DIR-F diver, wah.. i guess i'll not be able to dive thoughtout my life :P ... btw, any DIR diver in m'sia? :)

he told me that.. there are only abt 50 gue instructor throughtout the world.. so, if msia takda... we have to import him from whatever place.. pay for his air ticket.. accomodation to msia so that he can teach us. but that doesn;t mean that we will pass the first round :P
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#69  Postby John F SeaDemon » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:36 pm

SuperKingKong® wrote:
yoonming wrote:wah... say if u are a DIR/GUE diver and u are alone, u are not allowed to dive wif any other divers??
solution : they will rent a jacket BC from the DC and flash their OW C-card from whatever agency that certified them in the first place.... :p

hmm.... now tell me, which diver go straight to 5m from whatever depth the are at....am sure the cheapest dive comp in the market will also scream like hell..... 


well, it's all depends on how strict u wanna be. depends on u.. if u r a dir freak.. u will say NO.. if u r not, then it will be ok to you... no police will gonna arrest u.

ermm.. maybe some wreck divers do? they go down to whatever depth.. after explore.. they ascent to 5m :)


Well, in the GUE world, you MUST dive with a DIR-rated diver. No two ways about it. Otherwise it is not safe for you to do so and you cannot show that in your log. You must remember - as a GUE member, you have to renew your membership every year and they want to see if you are current with your number of dives and whom you dive with. Otherwise you will have to join dangerous tech divers like us.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#70  Postby SuperKingKong® » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:38 pm

John F SeaDemon wrote:Otherwise you will have to join dangerous tech divers like us.


:D ;)
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#71  Postby John F SeaDemon » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:48 pm

SuperKingKong® wrote:hahaha...
SD, i love u lah...everythinhg also u can argue :P

well, i know it's all about safety... maybe their ways promote extra safety.



You must know why other training agencies do not promote the kind of safety promotons that they do: because these agencies have been around a lot longer than GUE has and so has the Hogarthian system. Before there was Halcyon, Dive Rite was already doing it (hence Dive Rite's motto: Do It Rite).  And these other training agencies have done a lot of research and finally deduced that rec is rec, tech is tech.

Your next question would probably be: so why are dive training agencies like PADI, NAUI etc now getting into tech? The answer is to provide the divers a smooth transition if they want to pursue tech. Tech is a whole new ball game. The discipline is a lot different. The dives will no longer about looking for Nembrothas, or Ampheprions. So why reinvent the wheel? Why replace something when it is not broken?

Which brings me to my earlier question: if GUE methodology is good for recreational divers, why haven't they got a Open Water Course?

My next question would be: can you still read your dive planner proficiently? Do you still remember how to do simple navigation? If you answer NO to either one, how can I drill into you on how to calculate, plan and manage your gas? For that simple reason a rec dive is a rec dive: it is RECREATIONAL - for you to enjoy! For you to enjoy taking photos of gobies screwing each other and so on! Not for you to spend time writing and calculating on your wrist slate!

Oh, and imagine the boatman lift your DIR rig onto the boat and the tank sits on your Halcyon long hose - RM500! Ouch!
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#72  Postby SuperKingKong® » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:58 pm

i did ask similar question... the next statement he gave..

how many ppl dive in that particular florida cave? and how many gue divers die in that cave? ...0 for GUE....
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#73  Postby HoleMaster » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:19 pm

SuperKingKong® wrote:
Spazm wrote:
SuperKingKong® wrote:that day i attended a GUE talk...

this is what they argue... in Florida, there is a cave... very dangerous... all pros tech divers went in also die... then this few divers, from WKPP... plan their equipments, using standardise equipment, and not forgetting ways, teamworks... they went in.. and came out successfully, hence, DIR is born... it's a close to fool-prove way of diving. the only thing that can go wrong, is diver himself :) GUE is an organisation they formed to teach DIR... halcyon is the brand they came out with...

and i think he mentioned rule #1 in DIR: don't dive with non-DIR diver (but it's up to the diver himself), because they talk different language.
so, it u take a msia DIR diver and put it in USA to dive with DIR divers there, they talk the same language.. so, all procedures are the same and they can dive safely right away.


So if they cannot find a buddy who is DIR-F certified...can they dive alone without a buddy...since they insist that the buddy must be DIR-F certified??..

if they are strict enough.. the answer is NO  :D
that's why.. it's up to them whether do they want to risk their lives  ;) and also their training effort :P that is why.. it's something like a cult :)

also, according to them... the 5m/3mins safety stop is not safe :) why risk urself GOING up to that depth to stop?
in their course, they will recommend the "multi-level" stops... something like 9m for 1min,6m for 1min, 3m for 1min (maybe i'm wrong with the figures... but this is what they do).. gradual stop

and during deco stop, they don't recommend u doing it in vertical position.... it should be in horizontal position.. that way, all the parts of your body will be in the same depth... thus offgassing the same rate... which kinda makes sence.


Multi level deco stops. I do that quite often and some of us do...but still not DIR diver. The one im still trying to practise is horizontal deco stop. Difficult coz used to vertical positon.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#74  Postby John F SeaDemon » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:21 pm

SuperKingKong® wrote:i did ask similar question... the next statement he gave..

how many ppl dive in that particular florida cave? and how many gue divers die in that cave? ...0 for GUE....


Which question was that? What has asking why hasn't GUE got its own open water course got to do with that damned Florida cave? How many divers dive that Florida cave as compared to diving into the ocean? Can I brag that I have dived into the filter tank of the Air Force commando's dive pool in Jugra without using GUE config and came out alive?

Never brag about how many lives have not been lost. When complacency sets in, accidents will happen. In skydiving, 80% of injuries and fatalities are made by those who have more than 500 jumps. If you look at the zero-accident graph, you will see a drastic reduction over time, but the number will never hit ZERO: it tapers off and goes horizontally into infinity - that is called THE HUMAN FACTOR.

You can have all the best configuration that you want - but one day, something will happen to someone, God forbid.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#75  Postby John F SeaDemon » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:23 pm

Zarir wrote:Multi level deco stops. I do that quite often and some of us do...but still not DIR diver. The one im still trying to practise is horizontal deco stop. Difficult coz used to vertical positon.


Did a GUE/DIR guy teach you that? Am I right in assuming it was not? But you did it because your common sense said it sounded right, right?

So you DIRYW (Did It Right Your Way)  :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#76  Postby SuperKingKong® » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:28 pm

Zarir wrote:
SuperKingKong® wrote:
Spazm wrote:
SuperKingKong® wrote:that day i attended a GUE talk...

this is what they argue... in Florida, there is a cave... very dangerous... all pros tech divers went in also die... then this few divers, from WKPP... plan their equipments, using standardise equipment, and not forgetting ways, teamworks... they went in.. and came out successfully, hence, DIR is born... it's a close to fool-prove way of diving. the only thing that can go wrong, is diver himself :) GUE is an organisation they formed to teach DIR... halcyon is the brand they came out with...

and i think he mentioned rule #1 in DIR: don't dive with non-DIR diver (but it's up to the diver himself), because they talk different language.
so, it u take a msia DIR diver and put it in USA to dive with DIR divers there, they talk the same language.. so, all procedures are the same and they can dive safely right away.


So if they cannot find a buddy who is DIR-F certified...can they dive alone without a buddy...since they insist that the buddy must be DIR-F certified??..

if they are strict enough.. the answer is NO  :D
that's why.. it's up to them whether do they want to risk their lives  ;) and also their training effort :P that is why.. it's something like a cult :)

also, according to them... the 5m/3mins safety stop is not safe :) why risk urself GOING up to that depth to stop?
in their course, they will recommend the "multi-level" stops... something like 9m for 1min,6m for 1min, 3m for 1min (maybe i'm wrong with the figures... but this is what they do).. gradual stop

and during deco stop, they don't recommend u doing it in vertical position.... it should be in horizontal position.. that way, all the parts of your body will be in the same depth... thus offgassing the same rate... which kinda makes sence.


Multi level deco stops. I do that quite often and some of us do...but still not DIR diver. The one im still trying to practise is horizontal deco stop. Difficult coz used to vertical positon.


gue has lots  more to teach ...those things i mentioned.. are just part of it. yes, mullti level safety/deco stop.. some of us doing it,.. only if we follow all their rules, go through their course, then we are classified as dir divers

not all of their things are bad. like this multilevel stop.. it's a good thing... horizontal stop.. a good thing also.
but don't dive with other divers... i don't buy it.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#77  Postby John F SeaDemon » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:40 pm

And make sure you do not smoke; do not go on boats that do not carry flares, signal pistols, oxygen tank, first aid, and walkie-talkie.

Basically, do not dive in Malaysia but stick to a certain Florida cave  :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#78  Postby SuperKingKong® » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:45 pm

John F SeaDemon wrote:And make sure you do not smoke; do not go on boats that do not carry flares, signal pistols, oxygen tank, first aid, and walkie-talkie.

Basically, do not dive in Malaysia but stick to a certain Florida cave  :D :D :D :D :D

hahaaa.. SD.. u sacarstic lah :P
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#79  Postby HoleMaster » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:49 pm

John F SeaDemon wrote:
Zarir wrote:Multi level deco stops. I do that quite often and some of us do...but still not DIR diver. The one im still trying to practise is horizontal deco stop. Difficult coz used to vertical positon.


Did a GUE/DIR guy teach you that? Am I right in assuming it was not? But you did it because your common sense said it sounded right, right?

So you DIRYW (Did It Right Your Way)  :D :D :D :D :D


Err no...i learnt from this Jembalang Laut guy at Tioman couple of years back. After he patiently waited for my 20 min deco stop. Thanks to another fren who got me stuck somewhere underneath. Hahahahahaha :D :D :D :D :D
Rilek la bai...agak2 la diving. Kang tersekat kat lubang susah plak
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#80  Postby John F SeaDemon » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:53 pm

On another note, if you do courses with TDI, PSAI, IANTD, DSAT, NAUI Tech etc etc, you will still be taught what GUE teaches but you can dive with anyone you like who are from other agencies, and you don't have to dive in a cave.  :D :D :D :D :D

GUE methodology is nothing new. It has been around since the Hog system has been around. It is not theirs to claim.

But it is when they start saying other agencies are not as safe, or not safe at all, or that only they do it right and others do it wrong is what pisses me off.

Which is why, the presenter of the talk of that night showed 2 slides to compare the vast difference in terms of safety and discipline between non-GUE and GUE divers. I'll try to replicate below an example:

Image
Non-GUE divers

Image
GUE diver

Are these fair comparisons? You are talking about an apple and an orange.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#81  Postby John F SeaDemon » Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:57 pm

And as for the GUE-F course, this guy below is far more safer than a GUE-F diver  :D :D :D :D :D

Image
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#82  Postby Spazm » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:15 pm

John F SeaDemon wrote:And as for the GUE-F course, this guy below is far more safer than a GUE-F diver  :D :D :D :D :D

Image


Wooitt!!..Bakayeroooooooo!!...heh heh...
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#83  Postby John F SeaDemon » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:19 pm

Good what! You don't need to swim to a buddy in a hurry if you run out of air, you don't need someone else's untested octopus...and you don't screw your buddy's expensive dive! Especially when your buddy on that particular dive was me :D :D :D :D :D

Image
Last edited by John F SeaDemon on Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#84  Postby Spazm » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:21 pm

John F SeaDemon wrote:Good what! You don't need to swim to a buddy in a hurry if you run out of air, you don't need someone else's untested octopus...and you don't screw your buddy's expensive dive!  :D :D :D :D :D


No one wanted to buddy me when they saw me carrying that ...:P
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#85  Postby Sicko » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:51 pm

John F SeaDemon wrote:A deep stop for recreational diving? Can. I have been doing that and I have taught several people in this forum to do so.  If I dive down to 30m, then I may start my stops at 15m; or using Pyle's method, I'd start at 24m.  Using simple calculations, my deep stops would take 12 minutes altogether, and then my final ascent from the 3m stop to the surface would take me another 3 minutes (one meter per minute rate of ascent). So that is 15 minutes in total! Imagine the number of things you could see in a 15-minute dive! Such a waste! Furthermore, not all recreational depths come with the mandatory 5/3-stop requirement. So it is still safe for you to ascend, following the recommended rate, direct to the surface from a recreational dive. So why waste 15 minutes of your RM70?  Of course it is safer. But I suppose the guy also did not tell you that doing too long a stop on air is also not good as it wouldn't help the off-gassing process by much. You're just adding more N2 into your system.


Depending on the time spent at depth while doing reccreation dives, Using Pyle's meathod may instead introduce more N2 into your body...........

You're better off just ascending slowly to the 5/3 stop. :)
Anyone can do a dive to 100m or more.....
But how many will return alive???
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#86  Postby Sicko » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:19 pm

I met some new DIR-F divers on a trip to the Similans in '06.

They look impressive........ATX200, Halcyon plates, wings, HID can lights, Jetfins.....the works....

After 2 dives, when I talked to them, I relise that they were sort of brain washed by their instructor into believing only their meathods, equipment setup & mindset are right........

They behave just like lemmings........... :D :D

Oh and 1 of them can't even fin backwards or keep her body parts off corals...........Well, at least she thinks she's Doing It Right.......... :D  Whatever...............
Anyone can do a dive to 100m or more.....
But how many will return alive???
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#87  Postby narcosity » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:57 pm

John F SeaDemon wrote:Equipment config is all about common sense. What made backplates come into existence? Well, for one simple reason that if you wear a weightbelt snugly, at 20m it would become lose due to the pressure on your body.  And if you are in a wreck or cave, it might snag something and get entangled. Or it might drag and cause silt to be suspended in the water thus reducing viz. So they made backplates for tech diving. But as Nizaha said, do you need weights if you are diving with a twin set? I don't. What more if I have two deco bottles of 80 cu ft each. I'd sink like a stone if there is no air inside the bladder.

But when it comes to GUE-F/DIR-F, and the need to have DIR-configured equipment for you to be able to do the course, I do not see the point in that! I don't see the point in rec divers using backplates at all in open water. The reasons I see people using backplates for their recreational set-up are:

1) It looks cool

2) No requirement for weightbelt

3) Lazy to trim

Which goes back to my question: if you are a recreational diver using backplate, how do you dump your weight if you need to do an emergency ascent?  Has anyone using backplates fro their rec set-up ever thought of trying out CESA and manually blow into the bladder at the surface? It may work in a pool. But try doing that when you have 1.5 meter waves.


Interesting...

There was a question asked... what if an "Out-Of-Air" (OOA) diver took your main regulator and refused to return it back to you and your alternate air / Octo fails on you (Since he was talking on octo failing)... and since your hose is too long to retrieve it back from the OOA diver?

Answer was "Suck from your (SO Called) Power Inflator"

My question to him was "Is it a practice to have air in your BCD"... no answer was return to me?

My thought... If you have air in your BCD all the time... how could you be trim while diving since your BCD is inflated or somewhat have air in your BCD.

My take, they just gave it an excuse to counter some bad designs, which in turn made it into a bad marketing event... Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#88  Postby Snafu » Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:11 am

narcosity wrote:Interesting...

There was a question asked... what if an "Out-Of-Air" (OOA) diver took your main regulator and refused to return it back to you and your alternate air / Octo fails on you (Since he was talking on octo failing)... and since your hose is too long to retrieve it back from the OOA diver?

Answer was "Suck from your (SO Called) Power Inflator"

My question to him was "Is it a practice to have air in your BCD"... no answer was return to me?

My thought... If you have air in your BCD all the time... how could you be trim while diving since your BCD is inflated or somewhat have air in your BCD.

My take, they just gave it an excuse to counter some bad designs, which in turn made it into a bad marketing event... Correct me if I'm wrong.



Let me see....good question bro.

B4 i answer, let me clarify that I am not a DIR diver, Tech Diver or experience diver... I am just a diver.

Is a long hose but not that long till U dont have time to retrive it back, the OOA person will always be infront of u so u control the dive, as ur 2nd reg fail on u...signal OOA & share the primary.

If the OOA person dont give u back the primary to share, u grab it or snatch it  & if that dont work....relax no worries.

Just pinch ur inflator hose(dont bend the low pressure hose), press the dump & inflator valve at the same time with your mouth to the mouth pcs & breath from it  :glasses9: if that dont work,  :angel8: told U not to dive.

DIR newbie will claim that only with low pressure inflator this will work,  [-(...the air that comes out from your 1st stage to ur inflator are from low pressure port  :laughing11: so how low is DIR low pressure  :smileinbox: talking about DIR low pressure inflator (It was recall the last time, what was the problem eh...was it stuck open or something :laughing11:) ...talk about quality.

I wont recommend U to breath from ur BC bladder, is dirty & have plenty of germs BUT if U OOA ...and is ur only option,  [-( do it la & later can go see doctor.

If u feel like using ur BC bladder for breathing bag, easy only...just use SS backplate & loads of weights, then u need to fill air in bladder...as u OOA, ditch some weight & start breathing from the bag all the way to surface...it should give u at least 1 min la (is like rebreather without scrubber) - Pls dont try it ok as I have not perfected this method.

Anyway who am I to be saying all this, I am just a diver.

:D
Last edited by Anonymous on Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#89  Postby SuperKingKong® » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:24 am

Sicko wrote:
They behave just like lemmings........... :D :D

Oh and 1 of them can't even fin backwards or keep her body parts off corals...........Well, at least she thinks she's Doing It Right.......... :D   Whatever...............


the dir-f course only teaches u the method. after that course, ur bouyancy will still not be perfect. u need to practise it :)
cheers...
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#90  Postby John F SeaDemon » Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:53 am

SuperKingKong® wrote:
Sicko wrote:
They behave just like lemmings........... :D :D

Oh and 1 of them can't even fin backwards or keep her body parts off corals...........Well, at least she thinks she's Doing It Right.......... :D   Whatever...............


the dir-f course only teaches u the method. after that course, ur bouyancy will still not be perfect. u need to practise it :)


Oh! That sounds like PADI Open Water Diver Course...another unsafe agency...teaches you buoyancy during the course and after thtat you need to practise it. See the vast and stark difference between PADI OWD and DIR-F?

It's like trying to find a straight pubic hair amongst the messy rest.  :D :D :D :D :D
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