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DIR / GUE......what is this???

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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#31  Postby Bluemoon » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:35 pm

Spazm wrote:Thanks for all the constructive comments on this thread. At least now I have a better understanding of this DIR/ GUE stuffs...which..I have been hearing all about....

Curious to know how many DIR-F divers are they in Malaysia...or rather...even in this forum..:)



As far as i know...not much...some personal from DIR just given a talk last weekend in KL (in a private gathering). Is an intersting and informative talk (My 0.02 cents). :D
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#32  Postby Spazm » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:46 pm

Bluemoon wrote:
Spazm wrote:Thanks for all the constructive comments on this thread. At least now I have a better understanding of this DIR/ GUE stuffs...which..I have been hearing all about....

Curious to know how many DIR-F divers are they in Malaysia...or rather...even in this forum..:)



As far as i know...not much...some personal from DIR just given a talk last weekend in KL (in a private gathering). Is an intersting and informative talk (My 0.02 cents). :D


I see... did you attend the talk last weekend??? I am curious to know what would a DIR person talk about since you mentioned that it is interesting and informative..:)
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#33  Postby John F SeaDemon » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:56 pm

Bluemoon...I thought the guy was more trying to sell Halcyon equipment than talking about why one must DIR. And when people shot questions on why DIR thinks the way other people dive is not right, he couldn't give a straight answer.

Spazm...personally, I do not know. In this forum there was this guy from Thailand who's a GUE/DIR guy, but have not seen him since early last year or something.

DIR-F, IMO...is just another way to waste money - much like Extended Range in Technical Diving is.  As put by Snafu, you will learn to do it right the more you dive...your buoyancy gets better, your trim, your configuration etc etc. As for me, I only ventured into tech diving when I felt more comfortable underwater (and I had logged at least 100 dives then in all conditions: deep, drift, night, very low viz) before succumbing myself to the "dark side."

Furthermore...a GUE requirement that would fail most MUW members as given in GUE Course Prerequisites:

1.6 General Prerequisites for All GUE Courses

1.6.4 Must be a nonsmoker.


So if you smoke, you're not doing it right.  :P :D :D :D :D
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#34  Postby Bluemoon » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:05 pm

Spazm wrote:
Bluemoon wrote:
Spazm wrote:Thanks for all the constructive comments on this thread. At least now I have a better understanding of this DIR/ GUE stuffs...which..I have been hearing all about....

Curious to know how many DIR-F divers are they in Malaysia...or rather...even in this forum..:)



As far as i know...not much...some personal from DIR just given a talk last weekend in KL (in a private gathering). Is an intersting and informative talk (My 0.02 cents). :D


I see... did you attend the talk last weekend??? I am curious to know what would a DIR person talk about since you mentioned that it is interesting and informative..:)


Well..most of the information you can find in their page as some member post early on. I found it informative because i am newbie to this DIR-GUE topic.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#35  Postby Bluemoon » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:07 pm

John F SeaDemon wrote:Bluemoon...I thought the guy was more trying to sell Halcyon equipment than talking about why one must DIR. And when people shot questions on why DIR thinks the way other people dive is not right, he couldn't give a straight answer.

Spazm...personally, I do not know. In this forum there was this guy from Thailand who's a GUE/DIR guy, but have not seen him since early last year or something.

DIR-F, IMO...is just another way to waste money - much like Extended Range in Technical Diving is.  As put by Snafu, you will learn to do it right the more you dive...your buoyancy gets better, your trim, your configuration etc etc. As for me, I only ventured into tech diving when I felt more comfortable underwater (and I had logged at least 100 dives then in all conditions: deep, drift, night, very low viz) before succumbing myself to the "dark side."

Furthermore...a GUE requirement that would fail most MUW members as given in GUE Course Prerequisites:

1.6 General Prerequisites for All GUE Courses

1.6.4 Must be a nonsmoker.


So if you smoke, you're not doing it right.  :P :D :D :D :D


yeah seademon...50-50 and there is limitation in GUE courses like what you mention.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#36  Postby John F SeaDemon » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:11 pm

Bluemoon...hehehe. He must have sounded like another salesman who doesn't know what he's selling. Sorry my comments can sometimes sound harsh - but they don't call me a Demon for nothing  ;) B-) :D :D :D
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#37  Postby Bluemoon » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:13 pm

John F SeaDemon wrote:Bluemoon...hehehe. He must have sounded like another salesman who doesn't know what he's selling. Sorry my comments can sometimes sound harsh - but they don't call me a Demon for nothing  ;) B-) :D :D :D



No worries...!! :P
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#38  Postby John F SeaDemon » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:37 pm

I just don't understand that prerequisite.

I am NOT a smoker; but I know of many smokers who do tech and commercial diving whose performance exceed those of non-smokers, myself included.

I also don't understand the need to learn about S-drills and valve drills in DIR-F if you are diving a single 80 cu.ft cylinder. You have a leak on your single...what do you do? Do a gas shutdown? That would be suicidal.

Diving proficiency, buoyancy, trim, streamlining and equipment configuration, propulsion techniques, dive planning and gas management, dive team protocols, surface marker deployments - all are skills one would have learnt during OWD course, and as one progresses by increasing the number of dives.  DIR-F is for divers who do not plan to go any further in diving. And as DIR-F courses are conducted in waters no deeper than 18 meters, I wonder why would one need to have a 2m long hose to donate air to an out-of-air diver using a long hose?  Like I have mentioned before, use your octopus to donate and surface; or do a CESA. I have done CESA from 24m or deeper; I have had a valve O-ring failure at 20m where I continued to surface at safe rate of ascent and managed to do a 3-minute stop at 5m even before the air ran out (with my buddy and dive guide hovering nearby, of course - ask BuluDalam).

Since it is not tech diving, I think it is an overkill and a good way to burn money.

My take.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#39  Postby Sicko » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:00 pm

John F SeaDemon wrote:I just don't understand that prerequisite.

I am NOT a smoker; but I know of many smokers who do tech and commercial diving whose performance exceed those of non-smokers, myself included.

I also don't understand the need to learn about S-drills and valve drills in DIR-F if you are diving a single 80 cu.ft cylinder. You have a leak on your single...what do you do? Do a gas shutdown? That would be suicidal.

Diving proficiency, buoyancy, trim, streamlining and equipment configuration, propulsion techniques, dive planning and gas management, dive team protocols, surface marker deployments - all are skills one would have learnt during OWD course, and as one progresses by increasing the number of dives.  DIR-F is for divers who do not plan to go any further in diving. And as DIR-F courses are conducted in waters no deeper than 18 meters, I wonder why would one need to have a 2m long hose to donate air to an out-of-air diver using a long hose?  Like I have mentioned before, use your octopus to donate and surface; or do a CESA. I have done CESA from 24m or deeper; I have had a valve O-ring failure at 20m where I continued to surface at safe rate of ascent and managed to do a 3-minute stop at 5m even before the air ran out (with my buddy and dive guide hovering nearby, of course - ask BuluDalam).

Since it is not tech diving, I think it is an overkill and a good way to burn money.

My take.


I personally think it's a stupid way to burn money...... :D
Anyone can do a dive to 100m or more.....
But how many will return alive???
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#40  Postby Sicko » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:09 pm

John F SeaDemon wrote:
DIR-F, IMO...is just another way to waste money - much like Extended Range in Technical Diving is.




IANTD allows you to progress direct to trimix from Adv Nitrox/Deep air  :smileinbox:
Anyone can do a dive to 100m or more.....
But how many will return alive???
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#41  Postby Spazm » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:19 pm

I am not planning to do any Technical diving just yet at the moment.

So..if I take up DIR-F, would I be able to able to "convert" watever I learn for Technical diving?
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#42  Postby John F SeaDemon » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:33 pm

Sicko wrote:
John F SeaDemon wrote:I just don't understand that prerequisite.

I am NOT a smoker; but I know of many smokers who do tech and commercial diving whose performance exceed those of non-smokers, myself included.

I also don't understand the need to learn about S-drills and valve drills in DIR-F if you are diving a single 80 cu.ft cylinder. You have a leak on your single...what do you do? Do a gas shutdown? That would be suicidal.

Diving proficiency, buoyancy, trim, streamlining and equipment configuration, propulsion techniques, dive planning and gas management, dive team protocols, surface marker deployments - all are skills one would have learnt during OWD course, and as one progresses by increasing the number of dives.  DIR-F is for divers who do not plan to go any further in diving. And as DIR-F courses are conducted in waters no deeper than 18 meters, I wonder why would one need to have a 2m long hose to donate air to an out-of-air diver using a long hose?  Like I have mentioned before, use your octopus to donate and surface; or do a CESA. I have done CESA from 24m or deeper; I have had a valve O-ring failure at 20m where I continued to surface at safe rate of ascent and managed to do a 3-minute stop at 5m even before the air ran out (with my buddy and dive guide hovering nearby, of course - ask BuluDalam).

Since it is not tech diving, I think it is an overkill and a good way to burn money.

My take.


I personally think it's a stupid way to burn money...... :D


Hahahaha...right on, Bro!  :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#43  Postby Snafu » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:39 pm

If you need to speak to the GUE DIR-F instructor, do email or call him.

Mr. Gideon Liew (www.livingseas.com.sg)
Gideon@livingseas.com.sg
Phone: 65-9638-6808


Diving Qualifications

GUE Technical Level 2 Instructor GUE
GUE TriOx Instructor GUE
GUE DIR Fundamentals Instructor GUE

GUE Technical Diver Level 2 GUE
GUE Cave Diver Level 2 GUE


I dont know him in person but my friend(is a lady) that took the DIR-F course from him said that he is alright.

:D
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#44  Postby John F SeaDemon » Mon Jan 28, 2008 4:40 pm

Spazm wrote:I am not planning to do any Technical diving just yet at the moment.

So..if I take up DIR-F, would I be able to able to "convert" watever I learn for Technical diving?



You mean convert TO tech? Can..but you will have to learn the fundamentals all over again because it is a requirement to go through the whole thing. Then you would be telling yourself, "What a waste of time and money DIR-F was, nothing much was applicable, and not much safer than what PADI, SSI, NAUI, BSAC and other training agencies have been teaching for recreational divers."

Personally, you want to dive safe? Sling another tank like how you and I did at Bidong. A lot safer than having to swim underwater to seek your buddy's long hose, and he won't feel pissed having to burn his RM70 dive because you screwed by not making sure your O-ring was in a good condition.  :D :D :D :D :D

Image
SeaDemon (left), Trigger (center), Spazm (right) doing safety stop with another tank slung across the bottom (picture by AccordBuruk)

But to dive safely, USE A KM-17B helmet and surface-supplied air. A lot safer, and supervisor will make sure you will get your best mix all the time when diving.  :D :D :D :D :D
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#45  Postby Sicko » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:00 pm

I believe that the DIR-F also has requirements for the DIR diver to be kept current before renewing the C-card every year..............(ie : Have to do some minimium no. of dives every year before can renew C-card)
Anyone can do a dive to 100m or more.....
But how many will return alive???
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#46  Postby Snafu » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:46 pm

Sicko wrote:I believe that the DIR-F also has requirements for the DIR diver to be kept current before renewing the C-card every year..............(ie : Have to do some minimium no. of dives every year before can renew C-card)


That is just great  :laughing11: does swimming pool counts?...most of my dives are done in the pool.

Eh bro..have you started already your training with Davy Koo? Dont forget to share2 info in here.

:D
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#47  Postby John F SeaDemon » Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:29 pm

Hmm..yes. There is a need to renew your GUE membership annually. I don't know about the minimum number of dives per annum...but I am sure there is such a clause because they only want skilled :laughing11: divers.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#48  Postby Sicko » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:16 pm

John F SeaDemon wrote:Hmm..yes. There is a need to renew your GUE membership annually. I don't know about the minimum number of dives per annum...but I am sure there is such a clause because they only want skilled :laughing11: divers.


Ya..........Skilled in talking about all the DIR BS and how the rest of the agencies are unsafe......... :D :D
Anyone can do a dive to 100m or more.....
But how many will return alive???
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#49  Postby Sicko » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:25 pm

Syed K. A. wrote:
Sicko wrote:I believe that the DIR-F also has requirements for the DIR diver to be kept current before renewing the C-card every year..............(ie : Have to do some minimium no. of dives every year before can renew C-card)


That is just great  :laughing11: does swimming pool counts?...most of my dives are done in the pool.

Eh bro..have you started already your training with Davy Koo? Dont forget to share2 info in here.

:D


Well.......I seem to remember that there's a thread on the world's deepest pool..........maybe that'll count  :D

Still under training lah bro.......will post something in the appropriate forum once I'm through......so when you teaching me EANx?? ;)
Anyone can do a dive to 100m or more.....
But how many will return alive???
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#50  Postby Spazm » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:24 am

John F SeaDemon wrote:

Furthermore...a GUE requirement that would fail most MUW members as given in GUE Course Prerequisites:

1.6 General Prerequisites for All GUE Courses

1.6.4 Must be a nonsmoker.


So if you smoke, you're not doing it right.  :P :D :D :D :D


I failed this BIG TIME...:)
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#51  Postby John F SeaDemon » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:15 am

Sicko wrote:
Syed K. A. wrote:
Sicko wrote:I believe that the DIR-F also has requirements for the DIR diver to be kept current before renewing the C-card every year..............(ie : Have to do some minimium no. of dives every year before can renew C-card)


That is just great  :laughing11: does swimming pool counts?...most of my dives are done in the pool.

Eh bro..have you started already your training with Davy Koo? Dont forget to share2 info in here.

:D


Well.......I seem to remember that there's a thread on the world's deepest pool..........maybe that'll count  :D

Still under training lah bro.......will post something in the appropriate forum once I'm through......so when you teaching me EANx?? ;)


Aiya Sicko! Are you gonna come up here to do or ask him to go down to Sin City to do it? If you
are coming up, let me know. I want to do EANx course too.  B-) :P ;) :D :D
-If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying-
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#52  Postby John F SeaDemon » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:16 am

Spazm wrote:
John F SeaDemon wrote:

Furthermore...a GUE requirement that would fail most MUW members as given in GUE Course Prerequisites:

1.6 General Prerequisites for All GUE Courses

1.6.4 Must be a nonsmoker.


So if you smoke, you're not doing it right.  :P :D :D :D :D


I failed this BIG TIME...:)


Bro, the moment you open your mouth they'll make you carry the cross, tie you to it and burn you alive!
-If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying-
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#53  Postby Sicko » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:39 am

John F SeaDemon wrote:
Spazm wrote:
John F SeaDemon wrote:

Furthermore...a GUE requirement that would fail most MUW members as given in GUE Course Prerequisites:

1.6 General Prerequisites for All GUE Courses

1.6.4 Must be a nonsmoker.


So if you smoke, you're not doing it right.  :P :D :D :D :D


I failed this BIG TIME...:)


Bro, the moment you open your mouth they'll make you carry the cross, tie you to it and burn you alive!


And they make you carry 100% O2 in case the flames are not hot enough and to add some fireworks............. :D :D :D
Anyone can do a dive to 100m or more.....
But how many will return alive???
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#54  Postby Sicko » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:42 am

John F SeaDemon wrote:
Sicko wrote:
Syed K. A. wrote:
Sicko wrote:I believe that the DIR-F also has requirements for the DIR diver to be kept current before renewing the C-card every year..............(ie : Have to do some minimium no. of dives every year before can renew C-card)


That is just great  :laughing11: does swimming pool counts?...most of my dives are done in the pool.

Eh bro..have you started already your training with Davy Koo? Dont forget to share2 info in here.

:D


Well.......I seem to remember that there's a thread on the world's deepest pool..........maybe that'll count  :D

Still under training lah bro.......will post something in the appropriate forum once I'm through......so when you teaching me EANx?? ;)


Aiya Sicko! Are you gonna come up here to do or ask him to go down to Sin City to do it? If you
are coming up, let me know. I want to do EANx course too.  B-) :P ;) :D :D

Ok.......me will arrange a date to come up KL..........Dun start without me!!!! ;) :D
Anyone can do a dive to 100m or more.....
But how many will return alive???
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#55  Postby HoleMaster » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:52 am

Can u all teach me to be as good as u all?..... :glasses9:
Rilek la bai...agak2 la diving. Kang tersekat kat lubang susah plak
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#56  Postby John F SeaDemon » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:29 am

Zarir wrote:Can u all teach me to be as good as u all?..... :glasses9:


No la! How can? You dive with Nitrox on your back as your main gas...you breathe the thing while you're conducting your dive. People like us the most we do is sling the thing and only dare to breathe it while on the way to the surface.

You are better than us la. :P :D :D :D :D
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#57  Postby Sicko » Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:15 pm

John F SeaDemon wrote:
Zarir wrote:Can u all teach me to be as good as u all?..... :glasses9:


No la! How can? You dive with Nitrox on your back as your main gas...you breathe the thing while you're conducting your dive. People like us the most we do is sling the thing and only dare to breathe it while on the way to the surface.

You are better than us la. :P :D :D :D :D


You mean we can actually breathe EANx?? Isn't it to be used as some form of propulsion gas for the scooters??
Anyone can do a dive to 100m or more.....
But how many will return alive???
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#58  Postby SuperKingKong® » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:56 pm

that day i attended a GUE talk...

this is what they argue... in Florida, there is a cave... very dangerous... all pros tech divers went in also die... then this few divers, from WKPP... plan their equipments, using standardise equipment, and not forgetting ways, teamworks... they went in.. and came out successfully, hence, DIR is born... it's a close to fool-prove way of diving. the only thing that can go wrong, is diver himself :) GUE is an organisation they formed to teach DIR... halcyon is the brand they came out with...

and i think he mentioned rule #1 in DIR: don't dive with non-DIR diver (but it's up to the diver himself), because they talk different language.
so, it u take a msia DIR diver and put it in USA to dive with DIR divers there, they talk the same language.. so, all procedures are the same and they can dive safely right away.
cheers...
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#59  Postby Spazm » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:10 pm

SuperKingKong® wrote:that day i attended a GUE talk...

this is what they argue... in Florida, there is a cave... very dangerous... all pros tech divers went in also die... then this few divers, from WKPP... plan their equipments, using standardise equipment, and not forgetting ways, teamworks... they went in.. and came out successfully, hence, DIR is born... it's a close to fool-prove way of diving. the only thing that can go wrong, is diver himself :) GUE is an organisation they formed to teach DIR... halcyon is the brand they came out with...

and i think he mentioned rule #1 in DIR: don't dive with non-DIR diver (but it's up to the diver himself), because they talk different language.
so, it u take a msia DIR diver and put it in USA to dive with DIR divers there, they talk the same language.. so, all procedures are the same and they can dive safely right away.


So if they cannot find a buddy who is DIR-F certified...can they dive alone without a buddy...since they insist that the buddy must be DIR-F certified??..
Substance over matter , Diver behind the dive.....
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#60  Postby SuperKingKong® » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:34 pm

Spazm wrote:
SuperKingKong® wrote:that day i attended a GUE talk...

this is what they argue... in Florida, there is a cave... very dangerous... all pros tech divers went in also die... then this few divers, from WKPP... plan their equipments, using standardise equipment, and not forgetting ways, teamworks... they went in.. and came out successfully, hence, DIR is born... it's a close to fool-prove way of diving. the only thing that can go wrong, is diver himself :) GUE is an organisation they formed to teach DIR... halcyon is the brand they came out with...

and i think he mentioned rule #1 in DIR: don't dive with non-DIR diver (but it's up to the diver himself), because they talk different language.
so, it u take a msia DIR diver and put it in USA to dive with DIR divers there, they talk the same language.. so, all procedures are the same and they can dive safely right away.


So if they cannot find a buddy who is DIR-F certified...can they dive alone without a buddy...since they insist that the buddy must be DIR-F certified??..

if they are strict enough.. the answer is NO  :D
that's why.. it's up to them whether do they want to risk their lives  ;) and also their training effort :P that is why.. it's something like a cult :)

also, according to them... the 5m/3mins safety stop is not safe :) why risk urself GOING up to that depth to stop?
in their course, they will recommend the "multi-level" stops... something like 9m for 1min,6m for 1min, 3m for 1min (maybe i'm wrong with the figures... but this is what they do).. gradual stop

and during deco stop, they don't recommend u doing it in vertical position.... it should be in horizontal position.. that way, all the parts of your body will be in the same depth... thus offgassing the same rate... which kinda makes sence.
cheers...
"Dive Like Hell & You'll Be There" (it's so true... i personally have experienced it)
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