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DIR / GUE......what is this???

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DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#1  Postby Spazm » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:52 am

I always hear about DIR / GUE.....all these acronyms......May I know what is this???
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#2  Postby HoleMaster » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:48 am

Bro, from my limited knowledge DIR is "Doing It Right" course taught by "Global Underwater Explorers" ie GUE. Check www.gue.com. Heard from sifus the course is quite tough. More detailed explanation from Wikipedia:

DIR, an acronym for "Doing It Right", is an holistic approach to scuba diving originally developed by members of the Woodville Karst Plain Project. Its classes are taught by Global Underwater Explorers. Some of the defining characteristics of DIR diving include an emphasis on fundamental skills, teamwork, environmental awareness, and the use of highly optimized and streamlined, yet simple and versatile, equipment configuration. The aim of the DIR approach is to improve safety by standardizing equipment configuration and procedures for preventing and dealing with emergencies, and out-of-air emergencies in particular. The DIR approach encompasses aspects of equipment choice and configuration, diving procedures and techniques, and diver fitness and preparedness
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#3  Postby Spazm » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:02 pm

Zarir wrote:Bro, from my limited knowledge DIR is "Doing It Right" course taught by "Global Underwater Explorers" ie GUE. Check www.gue.com. Heard from sifus the course is quite tough. More detailed explanation from Wikipedia:

The aim of the DIR approach is to improve safety by standardizing equipment configuration and procedures for preventing and dealing with emergencies, and out-of-air emergencies in particular. The DIR approach encompasses aspects of equipment choice and configuration, diving procedures and techniques, and diver fitness and preparedness


Thanks holey.

Does this mean everyone who wants to be DIR compliant...must sell off their gears and buy only gears recommended by them??? Isn't this self serving then??
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#4  Postby John F SeaDemon » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:10 pm

DIR is a series of standards evolving from the need to do things the right way during underwater cave explorations (hence its acronym Doing It Right).  GUE is the people who came out with the standards (Global Underwater Explorers).

Initial underwater cave explorations (and wreck penetrations) were done using individually-set equipments.  After a while they realised that a certain standardisation has to be done so everyone knows where on the other person would the other person's equipment be in case of an emergency, therefore a dive team (there are no buddies in a tech dive - everybody is everybuddy) would be in a unified concept and configuration. DIR emphasizes on 5 aspects: physical fitness, mental preparation, pre-dive preps, dive experience and dive planning.

Among the standards GUE came out for DIR are: carefully weighting the equipment (so a diver can hold decompression levels properly especially in a lost gas scenario), marking/labeling of deco gas bottles with MOD and gas mix, promoting thresholds for gas diving to END of less than 1.00, working PO2 of not more than 1.4 and not more than 1.6 for decompression.

Personally, the standards are good to adhere to, but some, to me, are overkills in other situations. For example, the use of a long hose may be appropriate in a penetration dive, but in open water decompression dives, it would be a bit of a hassle having to wrap the hose around you.  Helicopter kicks are swell stuff to know, you can impress diver chicks too; but in a penetration dive, if the space is big enough for me to do helicopter kicks, then I'd rather maneuver using the tip of my fingers; reverse kicks...again I would reverse using the tip of my fingers because if the width is big enough, why would I want to stir silt up? I might as well use my fingers to push myself backwards and not kick the mask off my team mate behind me.

You can configure whatever equipment you want; to me as long as it works underwater, it's good for me.

Those are my thoughts.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#5  Postby Spazm » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:25 pm

So is DIR only used for Underwater Cave Exploration or it does help out alot in the sense of Leisure / Recreational Diving for myself??

I would like to know more as a diver friend asked me what is the difference. I wasnt able to ansher him and thus I am also curious now as I dont know.:)
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#6  Postby irukandji » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:47 pm

What I know about DIR is they use backplate wing BC, Long reg hose, very expensive dive lights, jet fins... a lot of different procedures underwater. Look cool though.  ;) The GUE website explain it quite well.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#7  Postby John F SeaDemon » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:12 pm

Spazm wrote:So is DIR only used for Underwater Cave Exploration or it does help out alot in the sense of Leisure / Recreational Diving for myself??

I would like to know more as a diver friend asked me what is the difference. I wasnt able to ansher him and thus I am also curious now as I dont know.:)



It makes you think about how you conduct your recreational dives, though, especially the dive aspect of it..not so much the equipment. But the rest of the dive skills required for rec diving, if you're a licensed diver, you should know about it already.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#8  Postby John F SeaDemon » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:19 pm

irukanji wrote:What I know about DIR is they use backplate wing BC, Long reg hose, very expensive dive lights, jet fins... a lot of different procedures underwater. Look cool though.  ;) The GUE website explain it quite well.


That's about it la. Looking cool and burning $$$.

My question is...if you use a backplate and need to dump your weights, how do you do that? Dump your whole system? Backplates are good for penetration dives...that's about it. Other than that, as I see it, people buy it because it is trendy to own one.  Seriously speaking, Snafu and I use soft-pac and weights on open circuit tech dives.  Backplate would be handy (steel, not aluminium...the latter does nothing but show trendiness because you still need to be weighed down) only in penetration dives...you don't want your weight belt to tangle up on something. But I believe, if you keep your equipment streamlined and checked once in a while during the dive, you shouldn't have any problem.

The other things is, imagine flying Air Asia with your backplate. You'll have to buy clothes at the resort and then throw them away.

Or something to that effect.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#9  Postby Spazm » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:25 pm

Hhmm...So..is DIR a good thing to be preached to Recreational Diver??.. Or would the methodology only applies for Techcies???...
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#10  Postby John F SeaDemon » Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:43 pm

Anything good is good to be preached to anyone. But it is best that the one preaching and the one to be preached to understand the fundamentals of diving first. Otherwise there would be too much information especially if you are trying to preach to a new OWD.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#11  Postby Snafu » Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:14 pm

Spazm wrote:Hhmm...So..is DIR a good thing to be preached to Recreational Diver??.. Or would the methodology only applies for Techcies???...


Cave Diver started with DIR approch on the diving & equipment...long time ago.

GUE(Global Underwater Explorers) make it into course & GI3 make it into cult by slacking others...all must have same equipment & brand, opp same BRAND & equipment, then the GI3 divers followed by slacking & wont be diving with non-DIR divers  :laughing11:

Halcyon is their equipment of choice coz the GUE top man owns Halcyon, Halcyon are good equipment ..as good as other brand of equipment  :laughing11: .... of coz sales pitch ..etc be telling that this brand are very good which I personaly think r BS.

Equipment is only as good as your diving & skills...nothing more then that, salesman will try to sell you anything & some even goto the extend of telling other brands are BAD :laughing11: Salesman will always be salesman.

Back to if DIR-F is a good course  :P ...if you have to do bouyancy tune-up course, something is wrong with your open water course OR you have not been using the POOL for training OR do more dives(Mix around with different divers all the time)

Overall is always good to know more about diving equipment, configurations & different diving style.....is it value for money?  :laughing11: Not for me.

For More Information on GUE http://www.gue.com/index.html

Oh yes I dive with DIR diver few times...hey they are just like any other diver, they are silent underwater just like us.

:D
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#12  Postby Spazm » Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:27 pm

Syed K. A. wrote:
Spazm wrote:Hhmm...So..is DIR a good thing to be preached to Recreational Diver??.. Or would the methodology only applies for Techcies???...


Cave Diver started with DIR approch on the diving & equipment...long time ago.

GUE(Global Underwater Explorers) make it into course & GI3 make it into cult by slacking others...all must have same equipment & brand, opp same BRAND & equipment, then the GI3 divers followed by slacking & wont be diving with non-DIR divers  :laughing11:

Halcyon is their equipment of choice coz the GUE top man owns Halcyon, Halcyon are good equipment ..as good as other brand of equipment  :laughing11: .... of coz sales pitch ..etc be telling that this brand are very good which I personaly think r BS.

Equipment is only as good as your diving & skills...nothing more then that, salesman will try to sell you anything & some even goto the extend of telling other brands are BAD :laughing11: Salesman will always be salesman.

Back to if DIR-F is a good course  :P ...if you have to do bouyancy tune-up course, something is wrong with your open water course OR you have not been using the POOL for training OR do more dives(Mix around with different divers all the time)

Overall is always good to know more about diving equipment, configurations & different diving style.....is it value for money?  :laughing11: Not for me.

For More Information on GUE http://www.gue.com/index.html

Oh yes I dive with DIR diver few times...hey they are just like any other diver, they are silent underwater just like us.

:D








Thank you  all for the unbiased advice once again.
It further streghthen my opinion on  why certain association are promoting themselves to be the better than the rest..In the end....how do u sing it.??..."It's all about the money...it's all about the ...."

But then again...there is no way of stopping "salesman"...they just find more "victims" if one have open their eyes...:)
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#13  Postby Snafu » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:51 pm

Hey if anyone thinks by changing their equipment will make them better diver...go ahead.

If anyone thinks by doing DIR-F course will make them DIR divers...go ahead.

BTW...if anyone thinks any other diving organization that they sign-up for open water or advance are NOT good, you can try signing-up for DIR-F for your openwater course  :laughing11: 

Oh the diving organization that I take my ScubaDiver course est. 1961 ...... NASA thinks is the best so they send their astronuts to learn from association I am with  :laughing11:

Ask the President of GUE .... when he started diving, who taught him openwater... I bet you is NOT DIR-F.

Hey there are so many new divers nowdays, they might pay for the course  B-)

:D
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#14  Postby Mephisto the Heretic » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:00 pm

when i was new into diving i learned a lot from GUEs/DIR websites.

As mention above, for a recriational diver, you can learned a lot from them and there is a lot of crap from them also.

Just take what is good and leave the bad.

How you know which one is which?

Learned, research, compare, practice and conclude. also ask around alot from the otais.

yeah, they do promote Halcyon products, a good marketing technique i must say. and to be fair, they do make good product as i can confirm as an owner of their backplate system. but even this can be futher improve.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#15  Postby IkanBilis » Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:15 pm

This is good discussion guys, thanks for the enlightenment. This is what MUW is all about - good, healthy discussion, with a bit of knowledge for dumba** diver like me.

Keep it up, By Divers for Divers..
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#16  Postby Nizaha » Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:20 am

Hey gangs

Gue or DIR is not only about the equipment. It is about the diving skills, and is more than a gear config. Just to let you know, GUE top man doesn't own HAlcyon but they represent the gear, which they use for exploration. I see DIR divers doesn't own Halycon brand.  Don't get me wrong, Doesn't mean if a diver owns Halcyon gear, he's DIR diver.

Consistency, redundancy and team diving. I would like to say here.Without getting into this argument, seeing I am not DIR, and don't want to be, although it does interest me greatly, my personal opinion is that DIR is the first philosophy to put the whole thing together in a reasonably coherent system. I don't think anyone who is really concerned with DIR will say that what they say is new, it is just they have organized it all into a "holistic" - there I have even used a whacko new age term - system. Whereas most of what they base it all on wasn't that organized beforehand.

Sd
I can answer your question about dumping your weight? my question is DO you really need weight while you're diving with doubles?? more specificaly steel backplate or Alu backplate? I can give both answer. I just travelled with Steel backplate with International Airlines couple days ago. I think 25kg weight restriction from most airlines I should be able to bring alots clothes for 2 week diving plus bring homes a gift to make wife and kid very hapy happy.

I know most DIR diver start from PADI,SSI or Naui, some of them are even IT from diving organization. but they realize this course still mising component . example gas management. 1/3 rules.

Why should I crawl inside the wreck if I have enough space to swim?


Safe diving
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Last edited by Nizaha on Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#17  Postby ikan » Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:28 am

Nizaha wrote:
I think 25kg weight restriction from most airlines I should be able to bring alots clothes for 2 week diving plus bring homes a [bgcolor=#ff0900]gilf[/bgcolor] to make wife and kid very hapy happy.



I think u might just want to rephrase that bro to make it look less pervesive ....  :D :D :D :D



Nizaha wrote:
Why should I crawl inside the wreck if I have enough space to swim?



Heheheheh .... my sentiment exactly ... (just an excuse rather than admitting being claustrophobic) ...  ;)
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#18  Postby Nizaha » Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:27 am

ikan wrote:
Nizaha wrote:
I think 25kg weight restriction from most airlines I should be able to bring alots clothes for 2 week diving plus bring homes a [bgcolor=#ff0900]gilf[/bgcolor] to make wife and kid very hapy happy.



I think u might just want to rephrase that bro to make it look less pervesive ....  :D :D :D :D



I done it.

What is pervesive??  [-( [-( [-(
Equipment can go to those depths, but your body might not be able to..
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#19  Postby ikan » Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:54 am

Nizaha wrote:
ikan wrote:
Nizaha wrote:
I think 25kg weight restriction from most airlines I should be able to bring alots clothes for 2 week diving plus bring homes a [bgcolor=#ff0900]gilf[/bgcolor] to make wife and kid very hapy happy.



I think u might just want to rephrase that bro to make it look less pervesive ....  :D :D :D :D



I done it.

What is pervesive??  [-( [-( [-(




hheheh ... sorry, suppose to be perversive ...
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#20  Postby HoleMaster » Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:12 am

Wah from a simple question to detailed explanation....good job guys :glasses9:
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#21  Postby John F SeaDemon » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:49 pm

Zaha...well, some points you missed about my earlier posting.

I don't use weights when I dive twins except one to give me trim. Even then, it depends on the config of my equipment and what extras do I bring with me.

The issue on backplates is when I see so many recreational divers dive singles and use backplates. More often than not they find themselves in trouble when they fly Air Asia that has a limit of 15kg per pax, and a sports equipment charge of RM30 as long as the weight does not exceed 15kg.

Gas management and rule of thirds are not really critical issues when it comes to recreational diving as divers are to dive within the no-deco limits. You hit 50 BAR, you go up. You run out of air, find a buddy and do buddy breathing and surface, or if you cannot find a buddy - CESA.  The latter is NOT an option for tech divers once the no-deco limits have been breached because you will be in a virtual overhead environment.

But as I have mentioned in the previous posting, it would be good for recreational divers to know how DIR is done - gas management, rule of thirds, knowing your buddy's RMV etc. Though it's an overkill, it would be good to know. However, the rec diver will have to have a solid fundamentals of diving...or good common sense.

Other than that, I don't see any necessity for rec divers to know these stuff.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#22  Postby Snafu » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:24 am

Nizaha wrote:Hey gangs

Gue or DIR is not only about the equipment. It is about the diving skills, and is more than a gear config. Just to let you know, GUE top man doesn't own HAlcyon but they represent the gear, which they use for exploration. I see DIR divers doesn't own Halycon brand.  Don't get me wrong, Doesn't mean if a diver owns Halcyon gear, he's DIR diver.

Consistency, redundancy and team diving. I would like to say here.Without getting into this argument, seeing I am not DIR, and don't want to be, although it does interest me greatly, my personal opinion is that DIR is the first philosophy to put the whole thing together in a reasonably coherent system. I don't think anyone who is really concerned with DIR will say that what they say is new, it is just they have organized it all into a "holistic" - there I have even used a whacko new age term - system. Whereas most of what they base it all on wasn't that organized beforehand.

Sd
I can answer your question about dumping your weight? my question is DO you really need weight while you're diving with doubles?? more specificaly steel backplate or Alu backplate? I can give both answer. I just travelled with Steel backplate with International Airlines couple days ago. I think 25kg weight restriction from most airlines I should be able to bring alots clothes for 2 week diving plus bring homes a gift to make wife and kid very hapy happy.

I know most DIR diver start from PADI,SSI or Naui, some of them are even IT from diving organization. but they realize this course still mising component . example gas management. 1/3 rules.

Why should I crawl inside the wreck if I have enough space to swim?


Safe diving
Zaha


Hi Zaha,

Halcyon share holder are the top brass of GUE.

All the approach written in DIR-F exist already & non of them slacking eachothers untill DIR-F came about with their Clear Clean Spring water diving.... hey they look like any other divers when diving in Repulse  :laughing11:

1/3 rule & gas management rule exist even b4 DIR-F ... IANTD, NAUI, BSAC..etc...technical diving been around long time you know.

What would be good is for DIR-F to teach & certify OPEN WATER diver...start from scratch  :laughing11:

You dont take others lesson & course direction & claims it to be your approach....hey they been invited to UK for some serious wreck & cave diving...invited by top UK wreck & cave dives, but no one turn up  ;)

Technical diving concept brought into recreational diving...hey why not, I WILL SIGN UP.. Not.

Dont you see all this diving gear looks the same with eachother & of coz salesman will claims theirs better.

I am a non DIR diver... I still dive.

:D
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#23  Postby Nizaha » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:57 pm

Hi Syed
If the Halcyon share holders are the top "brass" of GUE, then I think it is a great marketing strategy.  My bad if I didn't know that fact.  It doesn't take away from the fact that, in my opinion, the DIR system is a good system for diving (not the only good system, but a good system).  Sure, the rule of thirds has been around a long time, but it doesn't hurt someone following that rule...or to learn the rule while they are still novices at diving. 

I agree that it would be good for DIR to certify open water divers...maybe you should write them a letter to ask?? 

From what I understand, the GUE group has been in the UK wreck the Brittanic, and the video was shown on National Geographic...I saw the video myself.

Before I came to Canada and was wearing a drysuit in very cold water (0C) and in extremely limited visibility, I didn't understand why DIR was a good system.  Now that I have been diving here for awhile, I have found that using DIR system has helped me stay a safe diver even in this difficult environment with bad conditions.

By the way, no one is forcing you to take the DIR-F course and dive by its principles.

I hope this helps you understand my point of view.  I hope we're still friends and I hope we can meet when I'm in KL in a few months and discuss it more over teh tarik.  :D

Safe diving
Zaha
Last edited by Nizaha on Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#24  Postby Snafu » Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:17 am

Nizaha wrote:Hi Syed
If the Halcyon share holders are the top "brass" of GUE, then I think it is a great marketing strategy.  My bad if I didn't know that fact.  It doesn't take away from the fact that, in my opinion, the DIR system is a good system for diving (not the only good system, but a good system).  Sure, the rule of thirds has been around a long time, but it doesn't hurt someone following that rule...or to learn the rule while they are still novices at diving. 

I agree that it would be good for DIR to certify open water divers...maybe you should write them a letter to ask?? 

From what I understand, the GUE group has been in the UK wreck the Brittanic, and the video was shown on National Geographic...I saw the video myself.

Before I came to Canada and was wearing a drysuit in very cold water (0C) and in extremely limited visibility, I didn't understand why DIR was a good system.  Now that I have been diving here for awhile, I have found that using DIR system has helped me stay a safe diver even in this difficult environment with bad conditions.

By the way, no one is forcing you to take the DIR-F course and dive by its principles.

I hope this helps you understand my point of view.  I hope we're still friends and I hope we can meet when I'm in KL in a few months and discuss it more over teh tarik.   :D

Safe diving
Zaha


Zaha...if I am around during the time you are back from Canada of coz we will meet-up for TT.

I do understand where you coming from, is just that I dont see the reason why divers need to pay for OW course then pay for DIR-F course when all they can do is to just do more dives..read, ask question & do some skills in the pool.

What is the different in equipment?...BP is BP...Back inflation bladder is back inflation bladder...etc, whatever known brand that is.

Bro I have been diving in UK water & I know how difficult it is to even do rec diving(Semi Technical already) there .. technical even worst.

We as divers help eachother & learn from eachother.... not slacking other training agency when that is how we started diving at the 1st place.

Hey if divers have spare cash & wanna learn DIR-F...by all means but saying it is on top of the world  :laughing11: I dont think so.

Is the divers attitude that make them safe or dangerous after the training.

Bit of side track... I been offered Hammerhead with lexian body 2nd hand for USD1500, 50-80hrs on it  :-* THINKING HARD ABOUT IT.

:D
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#25  Postby Scuba Dynamics » Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:27 am

Wah Bro! Your 2nd hand Hammerhead with a lexian body and 50 - 80 hours on it sounds like the ex-wife of someone I know :laughing11: I am just wondering if it can still swim?? :D
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#26  Postby Nizaha » Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:34 am

Bit of side track... I been offered Hammerhead with lexian body 2nd hand for USD1500, 50-80hrs on it  :-* THINKING HARD ABOUT IT.

:D

Hi Syed,

Sounds like a good deal (hammerhead) ....go for it.  See you end of March! 

Safe diving..

Zaha
Equipment can go to those depths, but your body might not be able to..
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#27  Postby Snafu » Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:39 am

SD... It can swim, with me that is.

Zaha...Happy Birthday & drop me a line when you are back in Malaysia.

Did you take the DIR-F course bro?

What I think is good about DIR is the method of not using AIR for deep diving...Trimix is the way to go.

:D
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#28  Postby Nizaha » Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:49 am

Syed K. A. wrote:SD... It can swim, with me that is.

Zaha...Happy Birthday & drop me a line when you are back in Malaysia.

Did you take the DIR-F course bro?

What I think is good about DIR is the method of not using AIR for deep diving...Trimix is the way to go.

:D


Thanks, I'll be in touch with you as soon I get in KL.

I'm suppose to finish my DIR-F this year on Sept, But the baby come 1st, I'll try again this year on May after Malaysia trip.

I dive with 21/35 mix most my dive deepest then 32 mtr.

Zaha
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#29  Postby John F SeaDemon » Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:33 am

Syed K. A. wrote:What I think is good about DIR is the method of not using AIR for deep diving...Trimix is the way to go.
:D


Uurrgh...this I agree with absolutely. I don't see the rationale in forking out another 2.5K just to be able to dive another 10 meters more on AIR!!! The headbanging! They should just teach Trimix (as Normoxic as the mix Zaha uses) after Decompression Procedures.  I still don't see the need to torture one's sanity by going deep on air.

On the 2nd hand Hammerhead...go for it la! You can pass the original controller to me  ;) :P B-) :D :D

Zaha...let me know when you will be coming back. We must meet up!  ;)
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Re: DIR / GUE......what is this???

Post Number:#30  Postby Spazm » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:31 pm

Thanks for all the constructive comments on this thread. At least now I have a better understanding of this DIR/ GUE stuffs...which..I have been hearing all about....

Curious to know how many DIR-F divers are they in Malaysia...or rather...even in this forum..:)
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