Author Topic: Spearfishing - what or where do we stand? (Read 11363 times)

gcg · « **on:** September 09, 2008, 05:44:03 PM »

I sat in utter dismay and anger when a friend of mine related a story that happened recently. This incident took place in or around Pulau Aur, recently. There it seems that there was a small group of divers who went spearfishing. I know that there are many divers who are into spearfishing but spearfishing in a designated Marine Park is as far as I know illegal and above all dangerous!!

Now, to make that story worse, is that there were a group of Open Water students who followed this small group in the same boat and dived in the same place. One of them related that one of the spear-divers actually shot his gun in visible distance of one of these open water students. How ludicrous, selfish and irresponsible can people be!! What if an arrow goes astray?

Do we need to wait for an incident to happen to reach realization that this spearfishing is dangerous! Like I said, I believe that there are many speardivers but please do it in deeper waters away from Marine parks or diving spots!!

Many remarks and questions arose as I heard this story:

1. Spear fishing is illegal in Marine Parks - where do we stand and how do we report such incident

2. Spear fishing with a group of open water newbies is beyond any excuse is WRONG

3. How come the instructor who brought the newbies did not stop them while being in the same boat? Whatever the reason, the instructor who took these open water newbies is at fault and is solely responsible to make sure that spearfishing did not happen! For the instructor to keep silent is to condone such activity which just portrays the instructor to be of poor judgement and irresponsible! For such an incident to happen just tells me that the instructor was involved in this spearfishing directly or indirectly and probably doing it for the money. How low will people stoop for money - willing to put his or her students life in jeopardy? How do we counter such instructors and protect the newbies from such irresponsible ludicrous instructor!

4. What happened to the open water newbies - you have a voice and I urge that you report such incident or at least enlighten other divers of such incidence. You definitely know that diving with a group of spearfishers is potentially endangering your safety - so why allow it to pass!? You may not be so lucky next time when you find a spear from a friend piercing your heart accidentally! Who is at loss?

5. Why are we putting scuba diving sport at jeopardy? " Cuma kerana setitik nila, rosak susu sebelanga" ( I hope I got that right )It is already a potentially hazardous sport and safety is always the number one issue. One incident and the whole sport comes under fire! Why are we acting like a bunch of Mat Rempits - think of the sport in a larger picture which involves many other divers and just not you alone. There have already been to many diving related accidents lately please don"t add to it especially if it is at the end unjustifiable!

6. Why are we shouting about conservation when we cant even make a change in ourselves - look at what an example the instructor of the boat is setting to his new students! Rubbish!

I am sure that there is more issues than this but I am tired of being angry and sad at the same time. My question has always been the same: What does it take to learn and do it right? The thinking mentality that "it won't happen to me" has been many a times been proven wrong - so please, be mindful if not for yourself then at least for the others around you.

"Malang tak berbau" a famous advertisement they had once! It was taken of air because malaysians in general, rather than learn, made a hell lots of joke about it and the accidents continued to rise!

John F SeaDemon · « **Reply #1 on:** September 09, 2008, 06:59:55 PM »

This is seriously crazy, and I agree to the points made by GCG. If it was true, the first offence committed was doing an illegal activity in a gazetted marine park. And to show to newbies? Irresponsible.

Peter Griffin · « **Reply #2 on:** September 09, 2008, 07:07:19 PM »

I know for a fact that this illegal activity is widely spread in Perhentian and is also popular among the local DMs, instructors and DC owners. But nobody dares to report it to the authority since these people are somewhat considered as "otai pulau"(simply put - goons). If one reports on them, it means that one is looking for trouble. So, everybody basically treats it like it never happened.

: memories from my childhood, spear fishing in "sawah padi" with my home-made speargun. Way cooler than owning a GameBoy.

gcg · « **Reply #3 on:** September 09, 2008, 07:44:36 PM »

Well spearing in the sawah padi from my fond memories was fear of the unseen cobra! I digress

Hmmm.... why should we be fearful of reporting irresponsible people especially like bringing such people to the open forum such as this. Doing something like this will effect their coffer and would soon see a change to their ability to be responsible licensed individuals. On the contrary, not reporting such events will allow them to think that they are above the law. Keeping quiet is only bound to put more newbies thru problems and thus eventually leading to many fatalities as we have heard.

Safety in any aspects should not be compromised especially when the responsibility is placed upon the shoulders of those who are licensed such as DM's and DI's. If one cannot shoulder that responsibility than please refrain from getting such license!

Snafu · « **Reply #4 on:** September 09, 2008, 09:09:32 PM »

WOW!!!! This is very serious, SPEARFISHING in MARINE PARK??!!!

.... Dont this people know what a Marine Park is all about?

Dont any of the divers onboard know that is wrong to do so in Marine Park?

Newbies sees this been done in Marine Park??? .... Do report it & please use this forum as a platform to inform others about it to Taman Laut & Marine Police.

This is like having fun 1st & forgetting about safety completely ... hope nothing serious happen as spearfishing always ended with the diver diving alone, you tend to forget about your buddy as you are busy hunting

PULAU AUR & PULAU DAYANG are MARINE PARK area & PROTECTED from this type of activities.... I am very sure whomever involved in it are aware of it!!!

What happen if by accident the spear goes to one of the divers!!!!

This is an irresponsible act of divers!!! In a Marine Park some more!!! Make it worst when is done with recreational divers around.

Did the organizer STOP the dive? Did the boat Captain stop the dive? Did the person in-charge of the diving stop the dive? Did anyone do anything about it especially the experience diver onboard?????

MACHA · « **Reply #5 on:** September 09, 2008, 09:48:56 PM »

Dey! This is serious la! Honestly spearfishing infront of OWD course student is lunatic, common fellas in Marine Park? Champion la this fellas!
If I'm not mistaken there's no Marine Park base in Aur,
but if there's any report to them the Coast Guard shall be the 1st there & thinks can get nasty fellas

Well am sure theres a lot of divers enjoy spearfishing...honestly I like fresh fish too
but not in Marine Park & infront of students

Do this spearfisherman practice safety?

Its also a speciality course from some
dive agency....just got to respect local law!

Why do it with SCUBA? Can't this fella skin dive

Are we waiting for another dive accident?

jgshuwei · « **Reply #6 on:** September 09, 2008, 10:26:49 PM »

gcg, did your frens voice out even after the dive?

mocha · « **Reply #7 on:** September 09, 2008, 10:27:06 PM »

well said gcg.... and i agree wif macha... we are just waiting for another accident to happen.... and guess what when an accident happens?? ppl will try to keep our mouth shut coz they wanna 'respect' the dead!!! we will never learn!!anyway, diving community aint really big and news do travel....

freckled70 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 09, 2008, 10:45:29 PM »

aiyakk..this is totally serious

this is my first time to heard that..and very grumpy

gcg · « **Reply #9 on:** September 09, 2008, 11:16:26 PM »

jgshuwei, I think being newbies they had their trust in their instructor to keep them safe and that his practices are correct. However, as the events unfolded in front of their eyes, they were all lost of words and were dumbfounded. When I was being told the story, I realised that it only got into their senses that it was dangerous after the whole thing was over but I doubt if they realize that it is wrong to spearfish, as it was condoned by their instructor! :angry4:This is the impact of people who forget their roles and responsibilities and dont have the brains to see beyond their shoelace!

People should be more vocal and be brave to voice their rights only then will such idiot instructors and irresponsible spearfishers will stop as they see their earnings go down!

What can one do:
1. Refuse to continue the dive and force a refund
2. Take pictures and report it to the relevant authorities and put it on the forum
3. Spread the word around of such practices and of such organisers and warn newbies of the dangers
4. Stand up for your safety at all times!
5. As a forum and a diving community we must stand together agaisnt such ridiculous acts and empower divers especially newbies of what is right and what is wrong and what is DEAD wrong!

marlene · « **Reply #10 on:** September 10, 2008, 12:34:59 AM »

I recalled on 2 occasions where i had brief encounters with divers doing spearfishing. Both when i had done less than 15 dives. The first one was within reasonably close proximity and the diver immediately swam away and disappeared. I was made to understand that the DM who was with us reported this.

The second was when we were doing our safety stop and another group of divers were decending carrying with them spearguns. I remembered feeling relieved that I was leaving the dive site. Later I was told that this was apparently a common practice by one particular dive operator and was advised to be cautious especially when joining dive trips organised with them due to the likelihood of spearfishing being part of the 'agenda' of some divers. So I guess, being informed of which dive operators indulge in such activities made it easier for me to decide which dive operators to AVOID.

I fully support the notion to be proactive, take photos (if you have a camera) and report such activities but I am wondering if there is a way to ensure that newbies are aware of these dive operators? Although the diving community is small and people are wary about treading on other people's toes, is there any way this can be done for the good of the sport and the safety of recreational divers?

My next question i guess is this... if i am in a situation where i am halfway through my dive and i noticed spearfishing in action by a different group of divers, what am i to do?..

Do i inform my buddy / dive guide and we abort dive immediately?

If they move away, do i still abort for fear of being the target of a stray arrow or an overzealous hunter.... or am i simply being overly paranoid?

irukandji · « **Reply #11 on:** September 10, 2008, 12:40:22 AM »

I've been on a dive boat with divers who spear fish. They spear fish for fun. Not for survival. They shoot everything.
There were student divers and recreational divers on the boat as well. Student, fun diver, spear diver, all dive together.
I remember the one of the instructor says that it's OK to spear the fish because they reproduce very fast one.
I just keep quite, didn't want to mess with those who spear fish, they seem like people who do illegal stuff.

I'm not against spear fishing if it's for survival purpose, and not in marine park. But I'm against spear spearfishing for fun.

elkhidr · « **Reply #12 on:** September 10, 2008, 08:02:36 AM »

first i thought it related to spearfishers off a tukun in Terengganu. but it's not in a marine park. fresh fresh fish though.

but this one mentioned here, if this is true la, inside marine park, new divers, got instructors with new students, tsk tsk tsk... maybe the organizers or whoever taikor owns the island there and got a grandfather in bukit aman, that's why they are so 'above the law.'

how do u report this? police? navy? kdn? can someone do something!!!

reen · « **Reply #13 on:** September 10, 2008, 08:39:59 AM »

spearfishing is not bad..its the same case as pointers and gloves..give it to the wrong people..then you get bad result.

mocha · « **Reply #14 on:** September 10, 2008, 08:47:31 AM »

reen,

spearfishing is not the same as gloves and pointers, they are lethal!! they are as dangerous as a rifle or handgun.
but i do agree that it is not a bad sports provided they are being used in a proper manner.... same as short gun and hunting.....

garthak · « **Reply #15 on:** September 10, 2008, 10:25:08 AM »

The problem with marine parks here is that even if you do report fishing and spear fishing the officials won't do anything about them. It is 100% illegal to fish in Malaysian marine parks but yet every jetty is packed with fishermen and their poles and broken lines all over our reefs. If we are to make a difference we need to start with the officials.

oranglaut · « **Reply #16 on:** September 10, 2008, 12:40:46 PM »

Quote from: garthak on September 10, 2008, 10:25:08 AM

The problem with marine parks here is that even if you do report fishing and spear fishing the officials won't do anything about them. It is 100% illegal to fish in Malaysian marine parks but yet every jetty is packed with fishermen and their poles and broken lines all over our reefs. If we are to make a difference we need to start with the officials.

Couldnt agree more garthak. before we nail these clowns, let's 'spearfish' the officials first.. none of my dive trips excludes fisherman. be it on a jetty or open shores...its a disgrace

It was always deeply ingrained in me that "Divers dont Fish" but of course they eat fish la...

John F SeaDemon · « **Reply #17 on:** September 10, 2008, 01:16:58 PM »

Quote from: reen on September 10, 2008, 08:39:59 AM

spearfishing is not bad..its the same case as pointers and gloves..give it to the wrong people..then you get bad result.

Pointers and gloves, in a marine park, you can still get good results. One is to point to newbies what to see, the gloves to protect you from cold.

Fish-spear in a marine park can never yield the same result.

You want to spear fish, go to the open. When you can see the bulls and tigers trail you because you smell of fish blood, then you can call yourself a spearfisherman.

Garthak, sometimes officials are helpless to do anything because most of them are not locals. And they often get threatened by the locals who number more than they do. Unless you want to mow them down and turn them into chum

garthak · « **Reply #18 on:** September 10, 2008, 01:31:14 PM »

It's not the locals that fish that I have problems with. It's the people coming from the mainland with 6 poles that I have a problem with.

Snafu · « **Reply #19 on:** September 10, 2008, 02:25:00 PM »

What if the Dive Organizer allow SPEARFISHING in Marine Park for the TRIP???? ....Spearfishing trip always attract divers.

BTW to divers that dont know about Spear gun, YOU NEED LICENSE FROM The Police (Bukit Aman) to buy & keep it .... you dont need license for GLOVES & POINTER.

No Spear Gun license issued since 1995 & you can't RENEW your expired license.

Why dont we start with ourself to help & stop this Spear fishing activities in Marine Park...

a. BY advice to owner & organizer

b. Report to relevant department (Taman Laut/Police Marine/Police)

c. Put it up here so we know which DIVE OPERATOR & LOB not to go with & SHAME on the operator & organizer.
- Shame on the divers that dives with them
- Shame on them for not making SAFETY in diving the PRIORITY

We CARE right, so lets make the change

...DO we really care???

gcg · « **Reply #20 on:** September 10, 2008, 04:29:12 PM »

How could one have any sense to compare speargun to gloves and pointers? Would you dare dive in the vicinity of spearfishers?
Have you given Marlene's question any thought - what would you do if you find yourself diving in the vicinity of spearfishers? Are you safe? Do these spearfishers care? No point regretting later and paying respects to the dead!what if it was you or your loved ones?

Spearguns can kill but not gloves and pointers!

It is difficult to change the officials but I say we look at ourselves before we decide to change others. If our own dive operators and instructors are condoning such activities then what are we talking about the officials not listening! This sport is dangerous and like SD said if you want to play this sport do it in the open sea outside marine parks far from any dive sites. Do not assume that a dive site would not have divers.

I cannot believe we are comparing speardiving equals fishing at the jetty! Spearfishing is lethal. It is putting you as divers at risk of getting shot. What if it was you unknowingly being in the vicinity of spearfishers get a stray spear? If you live that incident would you be taking this issue lightly?

It is not just about safe diving but about making sure that the environment we dive is safe. Dont assume that it should be safe. We have heard of gunshot cases where the death was accidental. Firearms in anybody's hands is dangerous - how sure that one does not get delirious, or trigger happy or whether the person is sober enough to dive. Underwater and in the midst of having an adrenaline rush from all the excitement and especially if the visibilty isn't too great, one can easily make a mistake in what they see and fire their spearguns. What if it was the innocent you who was at the target point, or a fish is swimming and successfully evades the spear just to expose you to the oncoming spear?

What would you do if, while you were diving in a group, you realise you are in the vicinity of speardivers?

AcId · « **Reply #21 on:** September 10, 2008, 04:44:46 PM »

I couldn't agree more...

HoleMaster · « **Reply #22 on:** September 10, 2008, 04:51:40 PM »

My take, spearfishing is a sport and allowed. Provided u hv the license and abide the local laws. Even PADI says that. However in marine parks and in front of students is a BIG NO NO

Scuba Dynamics · « **Reply #23 on:** September 10, 2008, 04:55:58 PM »

Just as a matter of curiosity, do any of the "older" divers here remember an incident where a diver got shot by his spear fisherman buddy?

The "hunter" was swimming behind the "hunted" with a loaded spear gun, which discharged and the spear entered the "hunted" through the upper thing area and penetrated out of his lower abdomen area?

Perhaps that this was an isolated incident that happened many years back when the laws were not as tight as they are now, the "hunter" and "hunted" were friends and the "hunted" survived the episode that this incident died a natural death.

What about the diver who shot a turtle through the neck and proudly brought it back on the boat to show it to his "buddies" and quite rightly, got hell for it.

What about the instructor who was known to teach courses with a loaded speargun beside him, just in case dinner swam by??

Unfortunately, it is clearly obvious that there are still spear fishermen and women who still carry on doing this while on scuba, in groups and in designated marine parks

pummkin · « **Reply #24 on:** September 10, 2008, 05:12:22 PM »

The punishment for possession of firearms without a license issued by the relevant Malaysian authority is the death penalty. A speargun is a trigger device.

Mandatory Death Penalty in Malaysia
Offence and Legal Provision which provides for mandatory death penalty

Trafficking in dangerous drugs - Section 39(B) of the Dangerous Drugs Act 1952
Discharging a firearm in the Commission of a scheduled offence - Section 3 of the Firearms (Increased Penalties) Act 1971
Accomplices in case of discharge of firearm - Section 3A of the Firearms (Increased Penalties) Act 1971
Offences in Security Areas for possession of fire-arms, ammunition and explosives - Section 57(1) of the Internal Security Act 1960
Offences against the Yang di-Pertuan Agong’s person - Section 121A of Penal Code
Murder -Section 302 of Penal Code

This would be a good enough reason to report the offender lest you be taken in as an accomplice.

Having said this, they have amended the act to 'increase penalties.'

And Syed, I think they have stopped the issuance of the license in 1985. A person would have to be at least 21 years of age to be the last of the qualifiers of the gun license then. You would need to be born in 1964. Which means, anyone at least 44 years old today to be a holder of the license.

I'll list down the cases here when I have the time. I'm rushing a deadline for the dive magazine. Cheerio.

John F SeaDemon · « **Reply #25 on:** September 10, 2008, 05:13:50 PM »

Quote from: Syed K. A. on September 10, 2008, 02:25:00 PM

What if the Dive Organizer allow SPEARFISHING in Marine Park for the TRIP???? ....Spearfishing trip always attract divers.

BTW to divers that dont know about Spear gun, YOU NEED LICENSE FROM The Police (Bukit Aman) to buy & keep it .... you dont need license for GLOVES & POINTER.

No Spear Gun license issued since 1995 & you can't RENEW your expired license.

Why dont we start with ourself to help & stop this Spear fishing activities in Marine Park...

a. BY advice to owner & organizer

b. Report to relevant department (Taman Laut/Police Marine/Police)

c. Put it up here so we know which DIVE OPERATOR & LOB not to go with & SHAME on the operator & organizer.
- Shame on the divers that dives with them
- Shame on them for not making SAFETY in diving the PRIORITY

We CARE right, so lets make the change ...DO we really care???

I'm all for this.

John F SeaDemon · « **Reply #26 on:** September 10, 2008, 05:16:16 PM »

Quote from: garthak on September 10, 2008, 01:31:14 PM

It's not the locals that fish that I have problems with. It's the people coming from the mainland with 6 poles that I have a problem with.

Ah, yes. If mainlanders come with 6 poles heading towards Tioman, then there is something wrong there, unless someone on the island organises fishing trips outside the marine park territory.

But I also see locals renting out fishing rods to tourists.

John F SeaDemon · « **Reply #27 on:** September 10, 2008, 05:26:07 PM »

Quote from: Scuba Dynamics on September 10, 2008, 04:55:58 PM

Just as a matter of curiosity, do any of the "older" divers here remember an incident where a diver got shot by his spear fisherman buddy?

The "hunter" was swimming behind the "hunted" with a loaded spear gun, which discharged and the spear entered the "hunted" through the upper thing area and penetrated out of his lower abdomen area?

Perhaps that this was an isolated incident that happened many years back when the laws were not as tight as they are now, the "hunter" and "hunted" were friends and the "hunted" survived the episode that this incident died a natural death.

What about the diver who shot a turtle through the neck and proudly brought it back on the boat to show it to his "buddies" and quite rightly, got hell for it.

What about the instructor who was known to teach courses with a loaded speargun beside him, just in case dinner swam by??

Unfortunately, it is clearly obvious that there are still spear fishermen and women who still carry on doing this while on scuba, in groups and in designated marine parks

I've heard of that story of the guy who lost his 'virginity' to a spear from one former DSP Michael Lee, former CO of PZ4, more than a quarter of a century ago when we went spearfishing in the South China Seas.

What saddens me is avid spearfishermen get friends to take up scuba so that they can become shark-bait by holding on to the catch albeit with a line. Dive #5 and they are exposed to negative values.

Holemaster, yes, spearfishing IS a sport. However, you skin dive and target fast swimmers such as Trevallies. I've never in my whole life when I used to spear fish, spear a dormant blue-spotted stingray, or a grouper. That is not sports. That is probably for people who qualify for a poorer version of the paralympics (no disrespect for the handicapped as I am not any better than those who represent their respective country for paralympics). What I did was to turn on the sonar, detect a school of whatever I think could be what I want, shoot at 2 or 3, just enough for the whole ship's crew to enjoy, and go back to the surface. Never to fill up a Coleman container.

Like I said, you do it in the open, where there are no reefs, no land in sight, and the real hunters circle you.

THAT WOULD BE SPORTS SPEARFISHING.

John F SeaDemon · « **Reply #28 on:** September 10, 2008, 05:26:40 PM »

Quote from: pummkin on September 10, 2008, 05:12:22 PM

The punishment for possession of firearms without a license issued by the relevant Malaysian authority is the death penalty. A speargun is a trigger device.

Mandatory Death Penalty in Malaysia
Offence and Legal Provision which provides for mandatory death penalty

Trafficking in dangerous drugs - Section 39(B) of the Dangerous Drugs Act 1952
Discharging a firearm in the Commission of a scheduled offence - Section 3 of the Firearms (Increased Penalties) Act 1971
Accomplices in case of discharge of firearm - Section 3A of the Firearms (Increased Penalties) Act 1971
Offences in Security Areas for possession of fire-arms, ammunition and explosives - Section 57(1) of the Internal Security Act 1960
Offences against the Yang di-Pertuan Agong’s person - Section 121A of Penal Code
Murder -Section 302 of Penal Code

This would be a good enough reason to report the offender lest you be taken in as an accomplice.

Having said this, they have amended the act to 'increase penalties.'

And Syed, I think they have stopped the issuance of the license in 1985. A person would have to be at least 21 years of age to be the last of the qualifiers of the gun license then. You would need to be born in 1964. Which means, anyone at least 44 years old today to be a holder of the license.

I'll list down the cases here when I have the time. I'm rushing a deadline for the dive magazine. Cheerio.

Pam,

Spot on.

Snafuette · « **Reply #29 on:** September 10, 2008, 05:33:40 PM »

i share the same anger and disgust for those who spearfish for FUN and to impress those who are new to diving.

Reason why divers spearfish
1. To impress others that how great they are to be able to dive and hunt UW (especially newbies) and worst of all they hunt and DO NOT eat the fish that they have hunted. With plenty of fishes left dead on the boat.... What was the person intention? Why dont you ponder on this? those who love to spearfish at dive sites????

2. To get the adrendaline rush being able to be in control to hunt freely (especially when spearfishing is supposed to be done skin diving not scuba diving)

3. Divers who are selfish, inconsiderate and DO NOT think of other ppl's safetly ( even if you are diving with a bunch of divers who are all spearfishingtoo.. what about other divers who happen to be around the same dive site? and if visibility isn't that great and you thought you saw a big fish when it was a human?)

I have to say that most divers do take diving for granted.. thinking it is so easy to dive and nothing would happen to me attitude... but if you really sit down to think and ponder - diving is actually a very technical hobby where your mental and physical health is required to be FIT. A diver is trained to be discipline and be self sufficient to ensure his/her life is not in danger while diving. YET, so many of us take it for granted that diving is NOTHING.......... Just because it is easily available and more ppl are exposed to diving doesn't mean that the safety standards has changed.... No short cut should be taken.. all necessary safety procedures should still be carry through.

Spearfish for survival not for fun and endangering other people's life.. you may not love yourself but there are others who do love themselves.. think about them at least!!!!

This is my 2cents