Author Topic: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time  (Read 1670 times)

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Offline decimal86Topic starter

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folks,

i have almost 50 dives now and i am always the first to do my safety-stop. i am not 5'7" 168 lbs. run 15 km a week. but i seem to be burning up air very very fast. if there is only one DM, then everybody got to come up with me and that is not nice!

so what can i do to breathe more efficiently and extend my bottom time? thks.
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Offline expressodupio

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2010, 07:47:03 PM »

hrmm... few things that can make you consume air faster. one, unfit. but since you run 15 kms then i guess that is not a factor. others like, your underwater profile, buoyancy, dive sites, dive plan, anxiety, stress, too excited  ;). also.. the water temperature and your exposure suit. hehe..maybe try visualization technique as like people teach in PPB dives. oh ya...yoga?  :D

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2010, 08:30:34 PM »

You could be
1) having a big lung ...breath deep..and exhale loooooooooong.
2) doing a deep dives/against current/holding a camera/using too many weights or less weights may make u consume air a lot.
3) learn to surface with buddy without having the rest of the divers follow you to the surface. Just signal to the DM u already out of air and you need to safety stop and surface. Then everyone wont get mad with you.

learn to profile your air consumption every minute with every depth. The deeper you go the faster the air becoming less in the tank.
You may start to reach 100bar within 25-30min of Bottom Time and after >30min it is easy to reach 50 bar within 10-15min. This is
base average depth of 17m.


Offline tulip

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2010, 11:25:49 PM »

ii tend to breathe harder if i get a hot bod as a DM. so i guess stay away from macho DMs?

Offline Ketam

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2010, 02:03:47 AM »

The best advise Ketam get for air consumption is to be a lazy diver. Optimize buoyancy (do a proper weight check so you don't get overweight), dive with a good profile (less seahorse swimming hehehe) and to be very relax. Be lazy, not dart everywhere and hopefully you can improve on your air consumption.

This is from a previous post.

There are, in my experience, three major factors--make that four--that come into play with people we quite unkindly call 'hoovers' (because of their ability to suck their tanks down quickly).

1) As ikan noted, buoyancy and trim.
• If you are overweighted you will waste a lot of air pumping and dumping gas into and from your BCD in an effort to stay neutral.
• If you are underweighted you will have to breathe in fast and constantly exhale in order to stay down.
• If you have poor trim (you are not horizontal in the water) you expend a lot of energy pushing water ahead of you instead of slicing through it (think about how you spash somebody with your flat hand on the surface of the water), which means you are working harder and getting nowhere fast while you deplete your supply of air in the process.

2) Breathing technique. Shallow breathing leaves a lot of 'dead air' in your airways that is saturated with CO2. Excess CO2 in the respiratory system is what triggers the breathing impulse by the brain. Breathe all the air out of your lungs on every breath to get rid of all that excess CO2 and you will find that you can breathe more slowly and evenly, and therefore improve your air consumption.

3) Large lungs. Big men have big lungs, big muscles, etc. They simply consume more air! I had a dive instructor as a customer last week. This guy dives six days a week in Hawaii and has 7000 dives to his credit. He just couldn't stay down for a full one hour dive at our dive depths with a 12 l tank, and it was obvious this wasn't a newbie problem! Once I convinced him to dive with a 15 l tank, everybody was happy!

4) Fitness and health. Unfit people just breathe more heavily. Fitness is not a question of physical size--that is, slender people with lovely bodies can be horribly unfit, while people with a little lard on their frames can be very fit! If you get out of breath climbing stairs or walking up a slight hill, you should take measures to improve your cardiovascular fitness. Hand in hand with this is the temporary state of your health. When you're ill, or recovering from an illness, you will breathe down your tank faster. It's just a fact!

Offline Quero

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2010, 02:24:11 AM »

Despite the jokey replies you have received, I assume your concern is serious. My suggestion:

Take a Peak Performance Buoyancy class. When I teach this course I focus on several coaching points to help my divers cut down on their air consumption:

1) swimming technique--I train my divers to stop waving their hands and arms around. This just uses up air (you need oxygen to fuel the muscle movement) without providing significant propulsion. For fine tuning (steering), your hands may help, but you can also use your feet, and much more effectively. Fold your arms away and leave them there throughout the dive.

2) finning--I see a lot of divers doing what is called a "bicycle kick" (this is the same movement you use to climb stairs). This is inefficient and you have to work very, very hard to go a very, very short distance. If you are kicking inefficiently, you will be exerting your muscles a great deal, and all that movement means you need oxygen to fuel them. Again, your air consumption will be compromised. Make sure you are kicking from your hips (not by bending your knees) with fully extended legs and pointed feet.

3) trim--I make sure my divers are perfectly horizontal in the water. If you swim with your legs dangling down, your finning will push you upward rather than forward. You will be working twice as hard to get half as far; plus you will usually think you need more weight to keep you down since you seem to be "floating" up all the time (when actually you may be kicking yourself towards the surface). Use visualization to help you get yourself into proper trim (horizontal position).

4) weighting--if you are carrying too much weight to counteract a tendency to swim yourself to the surface (due to poor trim), your unhappy muscles have to push all that weight through the water. Imagine your heart and breathing rates when climbing a set of stairs, and then imagine climbing the same stairs with 20 kg of groceries; which scenario makes your heart beat harder and makes you breathe faster? Why work any harder than you have to? Carry only as much weight as you need to maintain a safety stop at the end of the dive with a nearly empty tank and no air in your BCD.

5) breath control--I teach my divers to breathe in and out fully. Shallow, rapid breathing does not provide a good air exchange as it leaves old, dead, carbon dioxide-laden air in the lungs, and since the breathing response is triggered precisely by CO2 levels, you will breathe more by taking shallow breaths than you will by taking deep breaths. By breathing deeply in and out, you expel all the excess CO2 and can achieve better breath control. I recommend a target breathing rate of six breaths per minute on a leisurely dive where you don't have to work hard (e.g., against a current). It will take some practice to reach this goal, but it is perfectly manageable. I am a very experienced diver so have had a lot of practice, but as a benchmark, you might like to know that I breathe in for a count of 4 or 5 and out for a count of 8 to 10, which makes a breath cycle of 12 to 15 seconds. I take just 4 or 5 breaths a minute. Breathe slowly and fully in and out.

Hope this helps.

Q.

Offline kelapa

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2010, 08:18:16 AM »

Despite the jokey replies you have received, I assume your concern is serious. My suggestion:

Take a Peak Performance Buoyancy class. When I teach this course I focus on several coaching points to help my divers cut down on their air consumption:

1) swimming technique--I train my divers to stop waving their hands and arms around. This just uses up air (you need oxygen to fuel the muscle movement) without providing significant propulsion. For fine tuning (steering), your hands may help, but you can also use your feet, and much more effectively. Fold your arms away and leave them there throughout the dive.

2) finning--I see a lot of divers doing what is called a "bicycle kick" (this is the same movement you use to climb stairs). This is inefficient and you have to work very, very hard to go a very, very short distance. If you are kicking inefficiently, you will be exerting your muscles a great deal, and all that movement means you need oxygen to fuel them. Again, your air consumption will be compromised. Make sure you are kicking from your hips (not by bending your knees) with fully extended legs and pointed feet.

3) trim--I make sure my divers are perfectly horizontal in the water. If you swim with your legs dangling down, your finning will push you upward rather than forward. You will be working twice as hard to get half as far; plus you will usually think you need more weight to keep you down since you seem to be "floating" up all the time (when actually you may be kicking yourself towards the surface). Use visualization to help you get yourself into proper trim (horizontal position).

4) weighting--if you are carrying too much weight to counteract a tendency to swim yourself to the surface (due to poor trim), your unhappy muscles have to push all that weight through the water. Imagine your heart and breathing rates when climbing a set of stairs, and then imagine climbing the same stairs with 20 kg of groceries; which scenario makes your heart beat harder and makes you breathe faster? Why work any harder than you have to? Carry only as much weight as you need to maintain a safety stop at the end of the dive with a nearly empty tank and no air in your BCD.

5) breath control--I teach my divers to breathe in and out fully. Shallow, rapid breathing does not provide a good air exchange as it leaves old, dead, carbon dioxide-laden air in the lungs, and since the breathing response is triggered precisely by CO2 levels, you will breathe more by taking shallow breaths than you will by taking deep breaths. By breathing deeply in and out, you expel all the excess CO2 and can achieve better breath control. I recommend a target breathing rate of six breaths per minute on a leisurely dive where you don't have to work hard (e.g., against a current). It will take some practice to reach this goal, but it is perfectly manageable. I am a very experienced diver so have had a lot of practice, but as a benchmark, you might like to know that I breathe in for a count of 4 or 5 and out for a count of 8 to 10, which makes a breath cycle of 12 to 15 seconds. I take just 4 or 5 breaths a minute. Breathe slowly and fully in and out.

Hope this helps.

Q.


good info....thanks for sharing..

Offline nekuromanseru

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2010, 10:35:34 AM »

thnks for the tips~

Offline nanda666

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2010, 01:32:02 PM »

And if you're doing everything right and you're still consuming more air than your buddies, try to always dive slightly shallower than them throughout the dive.

For example, if they decend to 28m, you decend to 25m and always stay 2 - 3m above and around them. That way you'll see almost the same things and if they spot something really nice you can swim down a little too. Over a span of 45mins, the 3 meter difference could give you at lease 10mins more bottom time and you may end up doing the safety stop together with all of them.

Hope this helps. (But remember, don't stay to far from your buddies!!  ;) )

Offline Shah

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2010, 11:22:16 PM »

Thanks for the good pointers. Hope with these tips I'll have better consumption at the next dive. 

Offline decimal86Topic starter

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2010, 03:27:04 PM »

ribuan terima kasih.

was away in Manado very consciously checking all the pointers given by the posts above and i do appreciate them all. 6 lbs weights. full wet suit. camera in hand.

still only 41 mins at avg depth of 19m. went down at 200 came up after safety stop with 30 bar.

what i did do on this trip was to assure the DM ( a guy-lah, so my heart did not go bo-bop, bo-bop) that i was going up with my wife and i would be inflating the 'sausage' to call for the boat. so that got me off the hook from the rest of the guys.

i make every breath count, i.e think of drawing air and exhaling after using all of it. and also making very small movements each time to change directions, only when we were waiting for the mandarin fish to come out at night did i notice i matched the groups' bottom time.

i also tried diving with minimal attire,and therefore minimal weights. needless to say they told me to put my clothes back on...lol
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Offline Ketam

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2010, 08:57:01 PM »

bro, you'll get the hang of it. 45mins is respectable. Overtime it will improve.

What are your plans for May? We are going Redang 6-9, then TARP 17-19 and probably celebrating anniversary at Perhentian end of the month.

Didn't get to dive last month.... this month still dry.... hopefully some compressed air end of the month.  :D :D :D

Offline decimal86Topic starter

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2010, 09:47:12 AM »

bro, you'll get the hang of it. 45mins is respectable. Overtime it will improve.

What are your plans for May? We are going Redang 6-9, then TARP 17-19 and probably celebrating anniversary at Perhentian end of the month.

Didn't get to dive last month.... this month still dry.... hopefully some compressed air end of the month.  :D :D :D


may ar? i got some off days. then i go Sipadan on 18th thru 26th may. i try to arrange for yr Redang trip.

this time not so pai seh, he let me do safety stop on my own. will keep on working on it. does reducing the flow regulator at the second stage help me?
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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2010, 01:09:21 PM »

ribuan terima kasih.

was away in Manado very consciously checking all the pointers given by the posts above and i do appreciate them all. 6 lbs weights. full wet suit. camera in hand.

still only 41 mins at avg depth of 19m. went down at 200 came up after safety stop with 30 bar.

what i did do on this trip was to assure the DM ( a guy-lah, so my heart did not go bo-bop, bo-bop) that i was going up with my wife and i would be inflating the 'sausage' to call for the boat. so that got me off the hook from the rest of the guys.

i make every breath count, i.e think of drawing air and exhaling after using all of it. and also making very small movements each time to change directions, only when we were waiting for the mandarin fish to come out at night did i notice i matched the groups' bottom time.

i also tried diving with minimal attire,and therefore minimal weights. needless to say they told me to put my clothes back on...lol


hehehehe good lah tu..u get the hang of 41min..after this will surely improve. Just get your trimming done right like quero said

Offline Quero

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2010, 06:26:44 PM »

does reducing the flow regulator at the second stage help me?

No, that won't help. That thing is there to prevent free-flows on the surface, where you can put it on the MIN setting. Turn it all the way to the MAX setting for diving.

Offline Adzri

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2010, 07:34:17 AM »

very informative , I also learn a lot from the post. Thanks

Offline decimal86Topic starter

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2010, 08:35:37 AM »

does reducing the flow regulator at the second stage help me?

No, that won't help. That thing is there to prevent free-flows on the surface, where you can put it on the MIN setting. Turn it all the way to the MAX setting for diving.


thks for the info
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Offline blackbear

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2010, 02:32:52 PM »

i agree with adzri....

Lots of info here for me to use during my next dive trip...

hopefully soon....

thanks all for your contributions and suggestions...

Dei ketam!!! 3 dives in may ah?? cemburu bro!!

Dive safe all!!!

Cheers!

Offline John F SeaDemon

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2010, 01:49:31 PM »

Apart from what has been mentioned above, especially by Quero, I normally listen to my breathing.  Stop...and listen.  Listen to whether you are breathing fast and shallow, or slow and deep.  And on EVERY dive, I would check EVERY ten minutes my air consumption.  After the first ten minutes, I would generally have an idea of what my consumption is like and what I expect it to be for the next ten minutes.  If I somehow use over than what I should the next ten minutes, then I stop and listen.

Well, that's me.

Offline decimal86Topic starter

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Re: How do i learn to breathe less often and extend my bottom time
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2010, 07:15:31 PM »

Apart from what has been mentioned above, especially by Quero, I normally listen to my breathing.  Stop...and listen.  Listen to whether you are breathing fast and shallow, or slow and deep.  And on EVERY dive, I would check EVERY ten minutes my air consumption.  After the first ten minutes, I would generally have an idea of what my consumption is like and what I expect it to be for the next ten minutes.  If I somehow use over than what I should the next ten minutes, then I stop and listen.

Well, that's me.


that was the very first piece of advice that i got. inhale....pause....think of good things in life....look out for macro....then exhale slowly. repeat and exhale even slower. check gauge. fin with a level keel. be aqua-dynamic, keep hands at side of body. exaggerate the slowness of movements. no 'mahjong' underwater.

believe me, i am practising. just don't want to spoil the fun for the group and the DM if i have to safety stop earlier than anyone else.
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