Author Topic: Actual Low on air  (Read 2027 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline IkanBilis

  • Scuba Guru
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2007
  • Posts: 1,182
  • Location: Nilai, Negeri Sembilan and Bandar Baru Salak Tinggi, Sepang
  • Gender: Male
  • Last Login:April 27, 2012, 04:37:46 PM
  • Nilai-Sepang and sometimes KL
    • Facebook
Re: Actual Low on air
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2008, 01:27:43 PM »

wah liao............... u all really safe diver huh.... 100 bar and ascend? no way i'm gonna do that.
super kiasi  :D
conclusion: don't dive with me. i'm not a safe diver....  :P

ikanbilis,
try practising freediving, will help in ur consumption.

Heheheh kimseng, after 30 years of freediving to max depth of 35 feet and cowboy-diving, then only I took OWD at the age of 43. The cigarettes did their job, now need compressed air to breathe for me to enjoy the underwater world.

But that's not the question, I want to know if anyone experienced inconsistencies with the gauge reading, the feeling that as your tank begins to empty, the air seems to flow faster..


bro,

does this happen all the time, or one particular time only?

and was the equipment rented, or owned?





Happens most of the time and rented and borrowed equipment. So much so that towards the end of the dive I start to be very conscious of my breathing pattern, trying to regulate it so that I can meet the planned bottom time.


Hmmmm. this is very peculiar indeed.

As for me, the air flows the same, be it when the tank is full or nearing empty, with the gauge indicating the correct amount of air left in my tank.

The only time the gauge moved and hard to breathe was when i did not turn the tank valve fully (it was only half) - the needle on the gauge was moving like the odometer of a car (circa 3500 RPM  :D :D).

Buddy slapped my forehead when i showed him and fully turned the valve after that. :)

 :D :D
Dunno bro, maybe my own anxiety caused that or maybe fatigue causes me to consume more air, I don't know. The fact is I will be extra careful towards the end of my dive, just to make sure I have enough for safety.

Offline Andy

  • Newbie
  • Join Date: Feb 2008
  • Posts: 56
  • Location: Blue Planet
  • Gender: Male
  • Last Login:July 22, 2010, 11:13:52 AM
    • My flickr
Re: Actual Low on air
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2008, 05:56:41 PM »

Its very difficult to determine the average time and the average air that you consume over that period of time,  even when the depth is constant. Maybe I am not experienced enough, but that's what generally happen, many times.

Is there something wrong with the gauge, or my breathing pattern? Maybe if i can look at my dive profile, it could show varying depth, but the difference would be too little to make an impact on the amount of air consumed. What is the cause of this scenario?


There is probably nothing wrong with your gauge. During diving any subtle change that affects our breathing pattern will alter our air consumption rate, no matter how small the change. When we are moving slowly, we consume less air, when we are stationary, we consume less air. When we see something that excites us, even when we are not moving, we consume more air. When we panic, even when we are not moving, we consume more air. There are many factors that affect our air consumption. Couple with the depth factor (remember the deeper you are, the more air you consumes), maybe just a meter or two, our air consumption will be different. So I think what happen to you is nothing to be alarm about, the difference are not that drastic.

One thing for sure though, the more dives we do, more comfortable we are underwater, we air consumption rate will definitely improve :).

My 2 cents.

Offline HoleMaster

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2006
  • Posts: 1,324
  • Location: Kay Yell
  • Gender: Male
  • Last Login:November 24, 2011, 08:51:41 PM
  • Air for Tyres, Nitrox for Divers :)
Re: Actual Low on air
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2008, 07:28:45 PM »

wah liao............... u all really safe diver huh.... 100 bar and ascend? no way i'm gonna do that.
super kiasi  :D
conclusion: don't dive with me. i'm not a safe diver....  :P

ikanbilis,
try practising freediving, will help in ur consumption.

Heheheh kimseng, after 30 years of freediving to max depth of 35 feet and cowboy-diving, then only I took OWD at the age of 43. The cigarettes did their job, now need compressed air to breathe for me to enjoy the underwater world.

But that's not the question, I want to know if anyone experienced inconsistencies with the gauge reading, the feeling that as your tank begins to empty, the air seems to flow faster..


bro,

does this happen all the time, or one particular time only?

and was the equipment rented, or owned?





Happens most of the time and rented and borrowed equipment. So much so that towards the end of the dive I start to be very conscious of my breathing pattern, trying to regulate it so that I can meet the planned bottom time.


Hmmmm. this is very peculiar indeed.

As for me, the air flows the same, be it when the tank is full or nearing empty, with the gauge indicating the correct amount of air left in my tank.

The only time the gauge moved and hard to breathe was when i did not turn the tank valve fully (it was only half) - the needle on the gauge was moving like the odometer of a car (circa 3500 RPM  :D :D).

Buddy slapped my forehead when i showed him and fully turned the valve after that. :)

 :D :D
Dunno bro, maybe my own anxiety caused that or maybe fatigue causes me to consume more air, I don't know. The fact is I will be extra careful towards the end of my dive, just to make sure I have enough for safety.


Most of the stuffs has been said already. My opinion is that at a constant depth with constant breathing pattern, ur air consumption should be constant. Rarely pressure gauge is faulty. Most of us dont realise that a slight change in body movement, excitement, over exertion, fatigue or simply not relaxed will affect ur breathing pattern. The key in consistent breathing pattern is RELAX. Scuba Diving is all about being Relaxed Underwater. With that, trust me ur air consumption rate will improve.

Online Quero

  • SAWADIKAP
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2007
  • Posts: 223
  • Location: Phuket, Thailand
  • Gender: Female
  • Last Login:Today at 10:14:31 AM
  • Andaman Mermaid
    • Gekko Scuba Divers, Phuket Thailand
Re: Actual Low on air
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2008, 07:38:26 PM »

A lot of great insights here. To address the question of EXACTLY how much air should remain in the tank by the time you reach the safety stop, here's what I do.

I want my divers to be at the safety stop with 50 bar. The characteristics of the dive site might make a difference in what we consider low on air.

When I take divers to the King Cruiser wreck, for example, I have a low-on-air rule of 70 bar. Why? Because we're doing essentially a square profile dive at great depth. Just getting back to the line and going up it takes a while, and by the time we get to the 5 meter stop, most divers who began to ascend with 70 will then have 50 bar anyway. Add the safety stop time, and many will get on the boat with 30 left in the tank. I use a 50-bar rule for multi-level diving conditions.

When I'm leading reef dives, I always ask divers for their SPG readings throughout the dive so that I can manage the dive to get the longest dive time from a tank. If I know when people are at their halfway point (100 bar), I can almost always get the group progressively shallower in order to extend the dive to the max dive time, even with big European divers who literally hoover their air.

It was noted by somebody that PADI doesn't teach the rule of thirds. This is true, but we do teach the effects of depth on air consumption and we teach monitoring of consumption. With adequate training, divers can do for themselves what I do for a group: that is, monitor their consumption and dive ever shallower so that they can get the most diving time from their single tank.

IMO, the rule of thirds is too simplistic for multi-level diving. It assumes a square profile and out-and-back nav. For the kind of one-way-get-picked-up-by-the-boat diving on sloping reefs that we do around here, it's much more effective to monitor consumption. As noted above, a diver can get fancy and pre-plan depths on multi-level dives according to RMV calculations, but it's not really necessary. I don't have these calculations for the divers in my groups when I lead dives, and I still manage to get them to their safety stop at 5 m with at least 50 bar in their tanks. The only times this has failed and divers have come up on my octo have been when divers either can't see their SPGs and misread them or alternatively lie to me to save face (yes, incredibly, this does happen).
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 07:57:04 PM by Quero »

Offline IkanBilis

  • Scuba Guru
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2007
  • Posts: 1,182
  • Location: Nilai, Negeri Sembilan and Bandar Baru Salak Tinggi, Sepang
  • Gender: Male
  • Last Login:April 27, 2012, 04:37:46 PM
  • Nilai-Sepang and sometimes KL
    • Facebook
Re: Actual Low on air
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2008, 07:41:47 PM »

Thanks Deepy, Holey and Andy...and the rest of sifus.. I think it is all in my mind. Maybe I need to practice Zen Diving (read... dive more lah) then only I can be like one sifu I know... surface with 140 bars left after 45mins at 25m... respect!!