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Author Topic: A very responsible instructor  (Read 2845 times)

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Offline Babygal

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Re: A very responsible instructor
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2007, 06:49:28 PM »

Quote from: Snafu on December 11, 2007, 06:45:33 PM
Quote from: avidiver on December 11, 2007, 05:48:52 PM
To me, the discussion should have been more objective based on facts but not on individual's opinion.

At the same time,  who are we to question the capability or professionalism of the instructor based on a person's opinion? I have seen him taking every reasonable duty of care to ensure that his students are diving in safer conditions i.e. by consulting the vessel's captain and doing some check out dive before bringing his student out in the water.

I too support the motion to close the thread and discuss about other issues on safety in diving in another thread.


Instructor or not...anyone can question the capability or professionalism of the instructor, dont be shy ...INSTRUCTOR ARE NOT ALWAYS RIGHT & DO MAKE THE WRONG DECISION  :laughing11:

As for closing the thread...nope, we can all learn something from this...example:

1. Most divers thinks instructor r professional ...not true woooOOooOooOo

2. Most divers thinks Divemaster r professional ... not true

3. We below the DM or Inst. level cannot ask question or discuss anything about diving ....not ture

4, Only Inst. & DM can contribute info ... not true

BTW it has nothing to do with Kaleebso...so leave it as that.

As for the said instructor...email been send to him so if he reply, you all will get to know about it..if he dont is his choice too.

Anway..we are not here to discuss about the instructor, just finding better option to make things better in the future.

 :D

Gotta say Snafu is right.....
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Offline HoleMaster

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Re: A very responsible instructor
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2007, 06:56:48 PM »

Like i said earlier lets keep the topic open. I wont close the thread. Let's discuss abt professional duty of care for dive professionals ie DM's and above. What is required and what is expected from a dive professionals when facing this kind of situation. We can learn alot from here. And again no names mentioned pls. Thanks
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Offline penyelamalam

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Re: A very responsible instructor
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2007, 08:06:41 PM »

i guess from the initial postinga and trip mentionde, many ppl can find out who the instructor is already.This is a forum for divers, not DIVERS COUNCIL lah. Who are we to judge him? Question him yes la, but do it there and then, not here. Who can force him to come hre and explain? And who are we to make him to come here? just my dua sen... ;)
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Offline Nizaha

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Re: A very responsible instructor
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2007, 08:43:27 PM »


Hey gangs.
 
 Keep this thread a life. tha all I can say..I really enjoy reading it and analyze the situation. :hello: :hello:

 Safe diving
 Zaha 
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Offline mmahfuz

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Re: A very responsible instructor
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2007, 10:06:03 PM »

Quote from: penyelamalam on December 11, 2007, 08:06:41 PM
i guess from the initial postinga and trip mentionde, many ppl can find out who the instructor is already.This is a forum for divers, not DIVERS COUNCIL lah. Who are we to judge him? Question him yes la, but do it there and then, not here. Who can force him to come hre and explain? And who are we to make him to come here? just my dua sen... ;)

agreed reputation gone ayoyo
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Offline sukdev

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Re: A very responsible instructor
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2007, 12:09:07 AM »

i wouldn;t say the dive instructor's reputation has gone ayoyo. Now we have heard from a handful divers who were on the same trip about what actually transpired of the incident. I believe the dive instructor has done what an instructor would do. My verdict of the dive instructor: NOT guilty.
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Offline kimseng the maverick rogue

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Re: A very responsible instructor
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2007, 12:22:50 AM »

i would think the moderators want to use this scenario to discuss about the calls that dive professionals do. but this thread is already tainted with accusation. i would suggest instead to create another thread.... clean. Present the scenarios and discuss from there.

Yes dive professionals are not ALWAYS right and they are not GOD.. there has been many cases they erred and it is up for discussion based on FACTS! no hearsay from 1 party. The integrity of the instructor is not for us to judge based 1 side of the story. It would not be right if I question an individual's integrity based on hearing someone said something bad about another through an internet forum.
Classic case of using the mob against someone...

I rest my case
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Offline sukdev

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Re: A very responsible instructor
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2007, 12:31:44 AM »

im on mr kimseng's side...rest the case
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Offline sheik

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Re: A very responsible instructor
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2007, 09:42:22 AM »

Don't shoot the messenger lah.
The messenger may have delivered it not to our likings, but read the message, and its content.

I don't see the name of the instructor (since it has been removed) already. That's the beauty about internet :)

Some say to close this so we can start fresh. Good idea.
Some say to keep it open and continue the discussion. Also good idea.


My 2 agorot:
1. the dive instructor should be professional, so he/she should be able to take the beating no name mentioned some more. And there are always people who will be looking/watching at them :) So that should keep them up on their toes; they get paid, what?
2. the divers, us the consumers, see from so many angles, and we get to choose who we like to teach us, where, and when. Don't we?

for those who want to start fresh discussion, please feel free to do so.
for those who want to keep this open, please continue talking here based on facts.

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Offline John F SeaDemon

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Re: A very responsible instructor
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2007, 09:43:56 AM »

I am in the opinion that we should close this topic, start anew with a scenario because the tendency to say things like "but in that actual incident, this or that happened."

If we want to discuss something on this, let us start another topic on it and ask the following: WHAT IS THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT OF ACCEPTABLE WATER CONDITIONS FOR OPEN WATER TRAININGS TO BE CONDUCTED.

If we do it in this topic, the stigma is there.
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Offline sheik

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Re: A very responsible instructor
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2007, 09:45:22 AM »

Go ahead, bro. Open the new topic.
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Offline penyelamalam

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Re: A very responsible instructor
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2007, 09:49:00 AM »

Quote from: sheik on December 12, 2007, 09:42:22 AM
Don't shoot the messenger lah.
The messenger may have delivered it not to our likings, but read the message, and its content.

I don't see the name of the instructor (since it has been removed) already. That's the beauty about internet :)

Some say to close this so we can start fresh. Good idea.
Some say to keep it open and continue the discussion. Also good idea.


My 2 agorot:
1. the dive instructor should be professional, so he/she should be able to take the beating no name mentioned some more. And there are always people who will be looking/watching at them :) So that should keep them up on their toes; they get paid, what?
2. the divers, us the consumers, see from so many angles, and we get to choose who we like to teach us, where, and when. Don't we?

for those who want to start fresh discussion, please feel free to do so.
for those who want to keep this open, please continue talking here based on facts.




bro, what messenger la? someone was accused lah, and definately there is an accuser(singular).
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Offline sheik

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Re: A very responsible instructor
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2007, 10:03:45 AM »

Quote from: penyelamalam on December 12, 2007, 09:49:00 AM
Quote from: sheik on December 12, 2007, 09:42:22 AM
Don't shoot the messenger lah.
The messenger may have delivered it not to our likings, but read the message, and its content.

I don't see the name of the instructor (since it has been removed) already. That's the beauty about internet :)

Some say to close this so we can start fresh. Good idea.
Some say to keep it open and continue the discussion. Also good idea.


My 2 agorot:
1. the dive instructor should be professional, so he/she should be able to take the beating no name mentioned some more. And there are always people who will be looking/watching at them :) So that should keep them up on their toes; they get paid, what?
2. the divers, us the consumers, see from so many angles, and we get to choose who we like to teach us, where, and when. Don't we?

for those who want to start fresh discussion, please feel free to do so.
for those who want to keep this open, please continue talking here based on facts.




bro, what messenger la? someone was accused lah, and definately there is an accuser(singular).


thank you for your participation, penyelammalam. you've been active again in here. that's good!
now go to new thread lah. :)

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Offline penyelamalam

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Re: A very responsible instructor
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2007, 10:13:04 AM »

mana ada tahi, situ manyak lalat mah....bzzzz bzzz bzzz.. ;)
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Offline HoleMaster

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Re: A very responsible instructor
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2007, 05:58:45 PM »

The thread has been dormant lately. As such i'll shall lock the topic
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Offline John F SeaDemon

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Re: A very responsible instructor
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2007, 10:30:21 PM »

I have received a response from the Instructor originally mentioned in this topic, and as this topic was locked earlier, he was unable to post his clarification.  The following is the clarification he sent me via e-mail today.

MOD

==================================================================================================

Hi SeaDemon (Global Moderator),
 
The thread of "A very responsible instructor" in http://malaysianunderwater.com/smff/index.php/topic,2830.0.html has been locked by HoleMaster (Global Moderator
Ace Diver).
 
In this circumstance, I couldn't reply on the topic. It would be great if you could help me to reply the thread on behalf as per following content.

===============================================================================================================
 
DATE : 17 DECEMBER 2007
ATTENTION : TIM YANG
 
To clarify false accusation:-
 
I did a few dives at Pulau Sembilan on 5th March 2005 together with 3 of my students and a leisure diver. The dive operator at the time is "Sembilan Divers" located in Lumut. It has been 2 years 9 months since my last dive at this location. I recalled my experience here from my memory the logbook and also from the research on the internet before the trip.
 
Captain Khay Lee gave the dive briefing (concerning tide, current, visibility, best diving timing, many local diving information and etc) before the boat departure from the jetty. All passengers / divers were there listening to the briefing.
 
As regards my students, 2 of them are siblings. The older sister was born on May 1989 whereas the younger sister was born on Oct 1993 .The older one is good enough to be certified as a " PADI Open Water Diver " and the younger one could be certified as " PADI Junior Open Water Diver" . The mother is a certified diver. The mother dives with me and 3 of my students. The father is not certified diver.
 
I would say the visibility was poor where the boat first stopped (The students were not in the water yet.). Then, the boat moved to a second spot where the visibility was better. The definition of underwater visibility is based on how far you can see horizontally not vertically. The conditions that most directly affect you when you are diving are: temperature, visibility, water movement, bottom composition, aquatic life and sun light. The factors that affect visibility include: 1) water movement, 2) weather, 3) suspended particles, and 4) bottom composition. If disturbed by your kicks, the boat wake or other water movement, fine bottom sediment can swirl into the water, quickly ruining visibility. Captain Khay Lee also mentioned this when he did the briefing which is a good lesson to recall the knowledge acquired from our Open Water Diver manual.
 
The visibility will vary depends on where you dive, when you dive, how deep you dive and so on. As for my training site selection, I have consulted the dive operator who gave me invaluable suggestion before I decided where to dive. Our first 3 dives were within 10 meters where the sun lights help to improve the visibility. The 4th dive was on the next day turn out to have the best visibility throughout the trip.
 
As a reply to the allegation: - An appropriate dive briefing has been conducted before all the training dives to 3 of the students. The students have completed the dives in a controlled environment. All acquired skills have been evaluated and all students ascent to the surface following the instructor (no missing divers). The students are successfully completed the open water certification dives in a safely.
 
The students are aware of the safe diving practices by reading and discussing the terms and conditions prior to signing the “Standard Safe Diving Practices Statement of Understanding”.
 
I noticed Kaleebso changed the dive spot about a week before the trip. It has been a busy time for me and I did forget to update my customers .However I did not received any complaint when I informed them of the change.
 
Though I welcome comments and feedbacks, I do not take insulting and derogatory remarks lightly especially if it is meant to ridicule me and where it involves my reputation and professional conduct.
 
I have explained the position. I believe an apology is overdue from you. I hope you have the courtesy to extend your apology to put right the wrong.
 
If the apology is not placed at this site within 10days, I will refer the matter to my lawyers for appropriate action to be taken to remedy the injustice done to me.
 
===============================================================================================================
 
 
Regards,
Andrew
W: www.scubadiving-malaysia.com
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Offline HoleMaster

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Re: A very responsible instructor
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2007, 11:14:08 PM »

OK, ive unlocked the topic for SD's posting on behalf of the instructor. As such to curb any unnecessary replies I shall lock the topic again. Thanks and Have a Nice Day
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