Hi all,

Check this out! An interesting article on photographer's responsibility (the DOs and DON'Ts) from Fins magazine. Article by Richard Smith.

http://www.finsonline.com/data/magazine/7_3/7_3Environment.pdf



 

Excellent article!!!

I've brought up similar discussions only to find most photographers getting rather unfriendly towards me!!

I think one point that is missed is the "semi-pro" photographers issue. These are not the pros but have the pros set-up and take similar shots to the pros. Pros tend not to take shots that others have taken and this is where I think the "semi-pros" differ. For example, a pygmy seahorse. If the shots you've taken on your last trip to Lembeh was excellent, do you really need another shot????? At the expense of possibly killing the little thing???

Advice to the "semi-pros"....Do think of why you're taking a shot and also...."is the shot necessary??"
Is it just to post on a forum or website and to receive words of...."wows"....."oh!! nice shot"..????
Is it for sale and it is a means of your income???

Another one of my "sickening photography" issue is Macro shots of eyes
Why would you want to stick a camera right up in an animals face and whack a strobe into it's eye la????? 

I think these photos should be condemned!!!  (Like the "when the buying stops thinggi..." we should not applaud these crappy shots!!!)

Do think about it and do read this article again when you're heading out on a dive trip armed with a camera!!!  (Maybe photographers should print this and stick it onto their camera cases!!  )

  but i've already perfected my butt shots la nazir. i can already tell which butt is yours and which is mun's.

Quote from: Nazir Amin on October 22, 2008, 11:06:23 PM

Quote from: nanda666 on October 22, 2008, 02:07:53 PM

Another one of my "sickening photography" issue is Macro shots of eyes
Why would you want to stick a camera right up in an animals face and whack a strobe into it's eye la????? 

Im slightly not agree with these, it’s not an eyes shot, i prefer to call it portrait shot. Having composition on focusing subject eyes to create impact, interaction between subject and viewer btw it’s not necessary to shot at the eyes

Just imagine if i take a butt shot of yours, how do I differentiate which butt is your heheheh (jgn marah har..)

 

On the contrary, nanda.

A close up shot of the eye does not mean that we will focus our strobes directly into the retinas to "capture their soul". Any decent photographer worth his salt will tell you that this will only result in over exposed shot.

Having said that, I do agree that some photographers tend to be a little bit more kan cheong (over zealous) than others and will try to get as many shots as possible - which isnt very good for our poor critter friend in the long run esp when there are 8 other equally kan cheong UW photographers waiting in line - be it DSLR users or them simple point and shoot ones. 

(Which is also why i do not recommend OW divers not to take the plunge in getting an UW camera set up so soon after getting certified - purely due to them not being comfortable underwater and having good control over their buoyancy)

The key point to remember here is perhaps to limit the number of shots you take of a particular critter. The pros only need 4-5 shots before proceeding to their next subject. Whilst us wanabes tend to take a little bit more.

Many thanks for the interesting article shared, mieze. Serves as a great guide to those aspiring to take this up as a hobby. And a great reminder to the more seasoned ones too.

Thanks DP. Very informative explanation especially to newbie like me. hmm...now I need to do some adjustment on the number of shots that I used to take.

Another one of my "sickening photography" issue is Macro shots of eyes
Why would you want to stick a camera right up in an animals face and whack a strobe into it's eye la????? 

I think these photos should be condemned!!!  (Like the "when the buying stops thinggi..." we should not applaud these crappy shots!!!)

A pro or semi pro photographer using "high tech" DSLRs will not be doing what most Point n Shoot photographers do, ie sticking their cameras up the fishes nose/gills to get a super macro shot.

They can get far better results using a 60mm or 105mm lens, usually taken a few feet away from the subject.

UW photography is a hobby for many. And this article can not come at a better time, as it serves as a guide to the ever increasing enthusiasts on how to take photos without destroying the critters' habitats n surroundings while doing so. (So kudos again to the writer).

IMO, any picture - be it good, bad or crappy should be viewed with constructive criticism. Only then will the skills improve (and hopefully reduce the number of shots needed to take that "killer" shot). One should also read up more on how the pros shoot, not to mention lighting techniques too. Only then will opinions be more valid - and not appear or sound like one made by someone with a sea urchin stuck in between their butt cheeks.

Quote from: dp on October 23, 2008, 01:28:27 PM

IMO, any picture - be it good, bad or crappy should be viewed with constructive criticism. Only then will the skills improve (and hopefully reduce the number of shots needed to take that "killer" shot). One should also read up more on how the pros shoot, not to mention lighting techniques too. Only then will opinions be more valid - and not appear or sound like one made by someone with a sea urchin stuck in between their butt cheeks.

"hopefullly" one day, humans care about more important things rather than their own freaking "hobby".
 
Wish I really could stick a sea urchin up some photographers butts when I see the the way they behave with their cameras underwater!!
And FYI, I have been diving since the days of the SLR, withour the D, was being used and the care that most photographers took even in those days was appaulling to say the least!!

The idea here is not to discourage anyone from underwater photography but more for people to understand marine life....let me give you an example:

Turtles laying eggs get distressed with flash photography....so no flash allowed.

So do responsible people have photos of turtles laying eggs??? NO.
Do tourist who have never ever seen a turtle laying eggs have a photo???? NO.
Would an irresponsible person say, "AHHHH..one photo only la...won't do anything to the turtle la.." and take a photo???YES.

You see.....It is not about it being a great shot or not......the question is.....Is it necessary?? Is the bragging rights worth it?

Ask yourself that the next time you decide to "shoot" something.........

and on another note.....pls don't take personal shots at members in the forum....not very ethical. 

i do agree to a point about what you have said. That is the sad truth - some photographers do not give a care in the world when they are shooting. Which is y, i shall say again, that the posting for this article is timely.
 
but for you to go lambasting and generalising ALL photographers (esp those with DSLRs techno thingys) i think, isnt a fair thing to do. I do not know who you have been diving with to make you passionately resent and unfairly conclude that all UW photographers do not care or are one of the reef's destroyers.

Furthermore, diving with SLR users pre-digital camera days does not make you - yes, i am now being specific - qualified to make comments about photo and lighting techniques employed by photographers in general. The very fact that you mentioned DSLR users sticking their cameras close to the subjects when taking macro shots shows that you need to read up a bit more about the basics of photography. I do apologise if you deem this as a personal attack, but I would rather correct this here and now than have you venting out and lamblasting EVERY UW photographers like an octopus armed with eight AK47s.

(And you can wonder why you get a lot of negative feedback on your postings).

I have seen my fair share of UW photo takers (and i use this word very losely) who kick sand, break corals, harass marine life just to get a picture of it. (i too, will feel like sticking a sea urchin up their butt cracks)

I have also seen a fair share of UW photographers who do the exact opposite - wait for their subject, shoot only what is necessary and taking care of where they land or position themselves.

As for having bragging rights for a nice picture, to each his own. I will be happy if i manage to capture a rather nice looking picture of a critter and see that my skills have improved somewhat. And of course, trying to figure out how to make the picture more stunning next time round. Reasons, i believe, are why we dabble in hobbies to begin with.

So chill bro. We all have our grouses and bones to pick. But lets be civil about the topic and take that chip off the shoulder. the lesser this thread is filled with " ", exclamation marks and whatnots, the more we can get our points across, without losing sight of the topic to begin with - which is to remind and educate on how to avoid damaging the reef when taking photographs.

And you are right about wanting people to understand marine life more, for i feel that the "WOW" factor is often captured when you fully understand your subjects, when they completely at ease with having u around - be it marine life, animals or people.

 

Quote from: dp on October 23, 2008, 01:28:27 PM

IMO, any picture - be it good, bad or crappy should be viewed with constructive criticism. Only then will the skills improve (and hopefully reduce the number of shots needed to take that "killer" shot). One should also read up more on how the pros shoot, not to mention lighting techniques too. Only then will opinions be more valid - and not appear or sound like one made by someone with a sea urchin stuck in between their butt cheeks.

"hopefullly" one day, humans care about more important things rather than their own freaking "hobby".
 
Wish I really could stick a sea urchin up some photographers butts when I see the the way they behave with their cameras underwater!!
And FYI, I have been diving since the days of the SLR, withour the D, was being used and the care that most photographers took even in those days was appaulling to say the least!!

The idea here is not to discourage anyone from underwater photography but more for people to understand marine life....let me give you an example:

Turtles laying eggs get distressed with flash photography....so no flash allowed.

So do responsible people have photos of turtles laying eggs??? NO.
Do tourist who have never ever seen a turtle laying eggs have a photo???? NO.
Would an irresponsible person say, "AHHHH..one photo only la...won't do anything to the turtle la.." and take a photo???YES.

You see.....It is not about it being a great shot or not......the question is.....Is it necessary?? Is the bragging rights worth it?

Ask yourself that the next time you decide to "shoot" something.........

and on another note.....pls don't take personal shots at members in the forum....not very ethical. 

So Nanda, i guess you are saying..."SAY NO TO UW PHOTOGRAPHY"??  Or, "SAY NO TO UW MACRO PHOTOGRAPHY"?     

Anyway getting a good superb shot is not about bragging...it is about "Self Satisfaction". As for those very nice photography u see in magazine, you have never seen their real "trick". I guess if you see it, you will do more than sticking the sea urchin in their a**. 

for the record......I never said all UW photographers are bad la....(Where did you get that from???)...and my MAIN issue is not the technique of photography (Yes...accept that I may have ranted on a little there..sorry!!) but more on the ethics of it.

Like Sea Demon mentioned, most critters do get stressed when we approach them. This is fact. So it really doesn't matter what any individual thinks, the fact remains. (Now this true no matter what camera or equipment you're using...in fact it's true even without a camera!!)

Example, clown fish.

We see how they practically "panic" when a diver gets close. (with or without cameras) So is it worth a photo?
Yes....I admit that when I used to take underwater shots, I loved to shoot "nemos" but then when I looked at the bigger picture.......I guess I rather watch them for their beauty from a distance that is comfortable to them..NOT a distance good for ME.

So I got no issues in saying sorry to any photographer who actually cares about all of this...this post is not meant for you.

To get back to the actual article....do practice it as a start to more responsible diving.

Thanks guys! 

Well said mie-ze-great ....

Everybody have their own responsibility, its is whether they own up to them or not is the difference ....

Diplomacy is the key ... you dont go and tell somebody with a big a** (mind the english  ) camera mounted with 300w strobe (mind the technical ignorance) that has been shooting the defenseless pygmy non stop 'I am not gonna dive with you' .. How is that gonna make a difference? How is that gonna protect the pygmy?

My take ...

Before you start suggesting to anybody which 30 gazillion mega pixel camera (again, mind the technical ignorance) to get, invest a litlle bit in a marine id and behaviour book and read about how marine creatures behave and such. Get to know your subject, be it corals, fish or whatever. A subject that is not stressed by your presence or your blaring strobes will be more cooperative and give your that million ringgit shot dont you think so?

And if your already armed with weapon of mass destruction, before trigger happily shooting away, consider the shot first lar. So it is also important for you to understand your camera behaviour. Dont waste your battery and stressed the innocent marine creatures with those unnecessary shot.

Remember, books are cheap, dive trips aren't (not for most anyway) ..

IMHO, ya we see a lot of this happening around, no doubt, I did it many times to be honest. Am I killing the animal... no!

I shoot pygmys too, honestly, how stress they were I dont know. Does anybody know how stress these marine life are???

How about night dives??? The lights that we are using, what are we pointing at???

So my question here, should we go very deep in this issue. Would you give up diving? coz I think your present underwater can stress (as you said) the marine life too.

      Thanks miezegreat for sharing.....